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Interesting 2/4 hands from last night

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lonnie

05-20-2005, 06:56 AM Post subject: Interesting 2/4 hands from last night

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 923

Will post these as I can. Need a chance to sit down and look at them all. Got myself into a few tough spots.

In this one, I'm jamming, but from position. I think I might have the best hand on the flop. The board keeps getting worse and worse though.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Lonnie is Button with 8

, 7

. CO posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Lonnie calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 5

, 6

, 8

(7 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP3 raises, CO folds, Lonnie 3-bets, SB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 7

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Lonnie bets, MP3 calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 9

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Lonnie checks.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

This second hand is interesting too. I'm pretty sure this guy is on a flush draw, so I pop him back on the flop. Bastard caps it to try and confuse the issue a little. Either he has a set and is more scared of the flush than I am, or he is trying to conceal the standard flush draw play. I go into "showdown" mode on the turn/river.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Lonnie is UTG+1 with 9

, 9

.
1 fold, Lonnie calls, UTG+2 calls, 5 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4

, 2

, 8

(4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Lonnie bets, UTG+2 raises, SB folds, BB folds, Lonnie 3-bets, UTG+2 caps, Lonnie calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 6

(2 players)
Lonnie checks, UTG+2 bets, Lonnie calls.

River: (8 BB) Q

(2 players)
Lonnie checks, UTG+2 checks.

Final Pot: 8 BB

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Fnord

05-20-2005, 07:21 AM

#2 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Hand 1: Bet the river, the other player might fold.
Hand 2: Raise pre-flop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

lonnie

05-20-2005, 07:46 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 923

Fnord, can you give me a quick reasoning of raising 99 in UTG+1? I know you hate to open limp, but I read in another thread where you mentioned limping UTG. When are those circumstances?

How many times will 99 win unimproved? I know the play - raise UTG, if a 9 doesn't hit, then you hope an A or K does. Then rep the A or K on the flop and turn unless you meet resistance.

Is 99 your cutoff? Do you muck the 88 or raise it too? I do raise TT from there, but can't quite bring myself to muck or raise the 99.

poskid_1982

05-20-2005, 07:53 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Midwest

Posts: 392

first hand...bad luck

Second
I'm thinking A8 or K8...He probably tried to push you to fold and had to put you on over pair and not gonna lay down...Hence his check on the river.

If he capped a flush draw on the flop I would make friends with this guy quick.

If I read flush draw and it or an over card didnt hit on the turn I'm checkraising fast. I know you dont wanna get trapped but...I think the hand is good enough to get more money in on the turn.

And with Fnord...Raise PF.

Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.

lonnie

05-20-2005, 07:56 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 923

Quote:

If he capped a flush draw on the flop I would make friends with this guy quick.

Happens all the time! Just look around at the hand histories in this forum. I'll post the results later if I don't forget.

Since you agree with Fnord on raising the 99 preflop from UTG+1, why not not take a stab at the questions I asked above. Simply saying "Raise preflop" is easy, now I'd like to hear some of the reasoning behind it, if you have the time. Not disagreeing with it, just want to know WHY.

poskid_1982

05-20-2005, 07:58 AM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Midwest

Posts: 392

I'll regularly 3-bet em but i wont be the one to put the cap on it...Just not my style

Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.

poskid_1982

05-20-2005, 08:07 AM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Midwest

Posts: 392

My reasons are...

If you've been playing reasonably tight and have reads on some players and know which ones have reads on you...UTG raises are gonna be respected. Allows a bit of isolation...something I dont mind having out of pos with 99.

Isolated - I can work my reads and hopefully take 1-2 opponents down

few people - I may be able to semi-bluff to a cheap river with better pot equity

lots of people - pot equity on a set is a beautiful thing

These are my reasons---I like to raise UTG with 88 or better...the lowers I play from MP on with raises in LP with lots of limpers to maximize my pot equity. I guess I'm just one big pair whore.

Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.

lonnie

05-20-2005, 08:16 AM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 923

Quote:

few people - I may be able to semi-bluff to a cheap river with better pot equity

I've always thought of a semi-bluff having to be at least a 3 outer (allowing for the tainted gutshot out on a flush board). The cheap river play is made from the back, not the front!

Seriously, I see what you are saying. However, I see you mention 'set' over and over. 99 is really needing to flop a set usually, especially from that position. The UTG raise limits the field considerably, which means fewer customers if you DO hit the set.

Generally at a tight table you will get maybe a cold call or reraise from MPish and the BB might put another bet in. This can setup the 'repping' opportunity provided they don't have a hand. These kind of plays cost quite a few bets to make though.

Still on the fence here.

lonnie

05-20-2005, 10:07 AM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 923

I seem to be at odds with conventional wisdom alot again, so I'm going to get back into the PokerTracker regime again. I've been playing without it. Was kind of scared to look at it.

These are only the numbers from today's session, ~650 hands, all at 2/4. I was a slightly over 1 BB winner today, could have been better but my play was a little off. 2/4 is a somewhat new realm for me, so I'm open to any criticism, although I may ask WHY alot.

I still need to get my PFR % up some more. The other numbers look pretty good. Would like to hear comment especially on the aggression numbers. It's been awhile since I've looked at these.

Note: Only 2 cold calls, and both were just odd plays I felt like making. One with AA against a Lagg opp for deception purposes, and once with JJ from MP+1'ish. I think I decided just to take the flop and feel things out from there once I got a look at the board.

Dragging out some old numbers...here's a snapshot of where I was as a .50/1.00 player back in October. This is from my "Operation" to get to 300 BB at .50/1.00. I was playing a few more hands and raising more. Probably doing both out of position.

EDIT: Sorry about these f'd up super wide pics. I'll fix them in the morning.

Fnord

05-20-2005, 12:19 PM

#10 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonnie

Fnord, can you give me a quick reasoning of raising 99 in UTG+1? I know you hate to open limp, but I read in another thread where you mentioned limping UTG. When are those circumstances?

If the table is loose with some lots of soft spots who love to play hands then I'll limp 66,77,88 and the weaker sooted broadways from UTG. If the table is more a mixed blend with 4ish to a flop then I'll raise 77 and better UTG. Hands like this give me a chance to think for myself and put in a little mix-up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonnie

How many times will 99 win unimproved? I know the play - raise UTG, if a 9 doesn't hit, then you hope an A or K does. Then rep the A or K on the flop and turn unless you meet resistance.

Works like a charm.

BTW, I'm at 13.78% PFR over my last 1.8k hands *cackle* Probably a little too LAggy in spots, but I'm getting used to dealing with the table when they flip the bozo bit on me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Phyl

05-20-2005, 12:22 PM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Texas

Posts: 396

Hand 1 I would bet the river. The rake is probably already capped and he might fold.

Hand 2 I would raise preflop. Post-flop looks good.

You raise 99 preflop because it has an equity edge, it does frequently win unimproved. You'd also prefer to see the flop 2-3 handed.

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Interesting 2/4 hands from last night

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