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Miggo
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05-18-2005, 02:29 PM
Post subject: If the blind raises ...
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 153
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Didn't know if this should go here or in the Beginners corner. But since it's regarding LHE, I'll post it here.
You're on the button with 2 or 3 limpers. You have a low pocket pair, or medium suited connectors, or some other marginal hand and limp in also. Now the SB or BB raises. Do you ever lay your hand down. Most of the time the other limpers always stay in, but since the raiser most likely has a premium hand, where do you draw the line at stay in or laying this down.
Do you just figure that if you're playing a drawing hand, and everyone is staying in, you have the same odds as you did before the raise, so if it was good enough to limp in before the raise, it's good enough with the same odds after the raise. If this isn't correct thinking, could some of you more experienced guys give some general guidelines, or ideas on what to do with these. Thanks much.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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always call. implied odds go way up when you got a speculative hand because you know you will get paid off by aces and kings.
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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as long as its only 1 bet back to you, you should call.
if it becomes two or three bets back to you, fold.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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koolmoe
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05-18-2005, 03:53 PM
Post subject: Re: If the blind raises ...
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#4 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miggo
Didn't know if this should go here or in the Beginners corner. But since it's regarding LHE, I'll post it here.
You're on the button with 2 or 3 limpers. You have a low pocket pair, or medium suited connectors, or some other marginal hand and limp in also. Now the SB or BB raises. Do you ever lay your hand down. Most of the time the other limpers always stay in, but since the raiser most likely has a premium hand, where do you draw the line at stay in or laying this down.
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I will always call 1 bet here. Even if the BB were to show me AA I would call. The pot will be paying pretty good odds for you to try to flop a big hand. For example, 3 limpers, you limp, SB folds, then the BB raises. You're getting 6.5:1 on your call even if the three limpers fold (which they usually won't). The only time I would think twice would be if I limped with weak offsuited broadway cards (KTo for example), and an absolute rock (i.e., rarely if ever raises) raised from the BB. But then I'd call anyway.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miggo
Do you just figure that if you're playing a drawing hand, and everyone is staying in, you have the same odds as you did before the raise, so if it was good enough to limp in before the raise, it's good enough with the same odds after the raise.
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If it's one bet back to you, then the pot will be laying you much better odds than when you limped originally (like 1.5-2x better odds). Your odds of winning are probably less than in hands where the BB doesn't raise, but for some hands the change will be very small (pocket fives, for example, will most likely need to spike a set against four opponents to win). Thus, the call of the reraise is actually an easier call to make.
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Poker is freedom
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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what if you limp in with some crappy holding like KTo and the SB raises? for the SB to raise, he's gotta have something really killer (assuming he is not a pure idiot fish) because he is in the worst possible position on all future rounds. whatever he has, be it AA/KK/QQ/JJ/AK/AQ/KQ/KJ, these all beat or dominate your hand. i know you have pot odds to call the raise but if you hit one pair on the flop, then what?? it is very possible you will get sucked in to the river and pay off a superior hand. seems like you would really need to flop 2 pr or a str8 draw to stay around with any kind of confidence.
i have no answers here, just trying to encourage deeper discussion of the original question.
ChezJ
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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i just realized i used the same exact example as koolmoe. sorry about that. great minds think alike i guess.
a related question is when you are the BB with some marginal hand like QJo and someone in LP raises. you have to call because you get the discount and favorable pot odds. but again, you can't be too happy if you actually flop a pair. if it's just one pair, you may be totally dominated. as with my previous example, you really would only be comfortable flopping two pair or a strong draw.
e.g., last night i was in the blinds with QJo and called a raise from LP in a short handed game. flop was 8TJ and i bet but got raised. i should have laid it down but ended up going to SD vs KJs and Q9. augh!!
ChezJ
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I fold the weaker offsuit broadways from my BB to a single non-steal raise. I need KQ/AJ at least to call, unless the raiser is a rock, then I won't even bother to give him action.
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