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I suck at omaha someone please help :(

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Clar17y

10-11-2008, 04:09 PM Post subject: I suck at omaha someone please help :(

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: Getting coolered.

Posts: 142

Ok so I took up omaha thinking I could make some money out of it.

Spent the first 3k hands not knowing what the hell I was doing and somehow manage to break even.
Then I went on a run where my graph looked like it had a slight upwards trend for the next 3k hands and then I got hit in the face by a huge downswing.

I'm not saying it's not my fault but omg even though my total EV is +, I feel I've just got against so many turned/rivers and I have no idea what to do!?

So anyway here's stats for last 7k

Garph:

I have PokerEV too and it says I'm currently $88 above EV. My won W/O showdown is $-134 and showdown winnings $92. Equity adjusted I should be -$130

I felt like I knew what I was doing when I was slowly going up. Then I just hit a patch where every time I c-bet with aces I get raised. Everytime I flop some hand that's got potential but not a made hand I get pushed off it. Everytime I flop the nuts the turn or river brings some god awful card that villain bets like crazy.

Does this happen to everyone? I mean do they ALWAYS have it when they bet like that? Because I've had to stop playing, it's just getting me too frustrated and upset with myself.

3 Biggest losers in the downswing:

1.

Party Poker $25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 10 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $27.28
MP3: $33.33
CO: $46.52
BTN: $23.30
Hero (SB): $33.01
BB: $32.66
UTG: $36.92
UTG+1: $16.35
UTG+2: $8.57
MP1: $22.22

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with T

6 folds, CO raises to $0.85, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.80, 1 fold, CO raises to $8.65, Hero calls $5.85

Flop: ($17.55) 3

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $16.68, Hero raises to $24.36 all in, CO calls $7.68

Turn: ($66.27) K

(2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($66.27) 5

(2 players - 1 is all in)

2.

Party Poker $25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 10 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP2: $31.57
MP3: $57.97
CO: $9.96
BTN: $39.92
Hero (SB): $25.00
BB: $17.61
UTG: $29.30
UTG+1: $25.22
UTG+2: $24.75
MP1: $27.27

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with A

UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, BTN raises to $1.60, Hero raises to $5.80, 1 fold, UTG calls $5.55, 2 folds, BTN calls $4.20

Flop: ($18.15) 8

(3 players)
Hero bets $12.93, UTG raises to $23.50 all in, BTN folds, Hero calls $6.27 all in

Turn: ($56.55) 5

(2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($56.55) 4

(2 players - 2 are all in)

3.

Party Poker $25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+2: $24.75
MP1: $21.20
MP2: $24.15
Hero (CO): $25.00
BTN: $35.35
SB: $33.52
BB: $27.59
UTG: $23.50
UTG+1: $45.48

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with Q

1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB raises to $1.50, BB calls $1.25, UTG+1 calls $1.25, MP2 calls $1.25, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($7.50) 4

(5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($7.50) 9

(5 players)
SB checks, BB bets $7, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls $7, SB folds

River: ($21.50) 4

(2 players)
BB bets $18.75, Hero calls $16.50 all in

These hands aren't the kind of hands that really bother me. The ones that bother me are ones where I am putting around $5-10 into the pot then having to fold because I think I'm beat. Hands like

Party Poker $25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 3 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $7.80
BB: $24.90
Hero (BTN): $95.44

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with 9

Hero raises to $0.85, 1 fold, BB raises to $2.65, Hero calls $1.80

Flop: ($5.40) 9

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5.13, BB calls $5.13

Turn: ($15.66) Q

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($15.66) K

(2 players)
BB bets $14.88, Hero folds

Obviously sample size = small etc. But I get the feeling a lot can be won or lost in an extremely small amount of hands and I don't want to keep playing omaha thinking I know what I'm doing when actually I kinda suck and am just folding too much / betting too much with marginal hands etc and a losing player.

ANY help is appreciated,

Clar

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bigspenda73

10-11-2008, 06:01 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

the flop check in hand 3 is not so good yo

you suck at pot control, listen, even though it's pot-limit Omaha doesn't mean you always have to be slamming the bet pot button, pre-flop or post-flop.

Clar17y

10-11-2008, 07:07 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: Getting coolered.

Posts: 142

I understand that the flop check in 3 was just lolbad. I kinda knew that at the time and then of course when the 9 hits I'm a bit like ffs he turned a straight so call hope to boat up or that he was bluffing.

4 comes I fist pump call his shove and he flips quads obviously but that's just bad luck.

Pot control is a thing I need to work on but when so many people see the flop, the pot tends to be around $4-5. Even if you lead for 3/4 pot and get called it's now $10 and if villain leads out for pot you have to decide whether to go with it or not.

I think it's mainly because party has a bet in relation to pot button. So whenever the board looks draw heavy and I have a set I want to price out draws. The only time I bet less than full pot is when the board is relatively safe or I have a made hand that cannot be trumped by a certain river card. In omaha that seems to be very unusual.

Ok so pot control I need to work on.
I've read some articles on c-betting but at this stakes is it better / ok to not bet unless you have a hand you're willing to felt? Or when I c-bet with a hand I'm not entirely keen on should I be betting less than pot to reduce my losses if someone has something?

Clar

bigspenda73

10-11-2008, 07:33 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clar17y

4 comes I fist pump call his shove and he flips quads obviously but that's just bad luck.

you're going to lose the pot if the 4 hits or not

bigspenda73

10-11-2008, 11:01 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

I thought I'd post some stats from the lowest level I've played seriously, I don't know if it will help at all, maybe we can figure out where you're different.

This is all 25PLO 6max (and some HU I guess because I start tables). A couple things, I am not a nut-camper of set-hunter at all, it looks like I win a lot more pots postflop than you do, I'm sure I'm running somewhat good, but I feel like I win a lot of 20-40BB pots by reading my opponents hands and putting pressure on them in spots where they cannot stand it for multiple streets.

Clar17y

10-11-2008, 11:08 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: Getting coolered.

Posts: 142

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clar17y

4 comes I fist pump call his shove and he flips quads obviously but that's just bad luck.

you're going to lose the pot if the 4 hits or not

Ok this has got to some kind of omaha lesson you're trying to teach me. Yes I played the hand badly. Yes if I keep playing sets like that I'll lose money but on this specific river I have the nut boat? Why's that not a fist pump call?

Btw stacking off with AAKK on a QJ4 flop ok if you have bet 3/4 of your stack pre/on flop? Ignore that it was like a trick question cos I did it and obviously ran into top set like a noob.

I am probably one of the players you could make a lot of money from. I tend to lead out on good flops, but then I'm really unsure of what to do if I'm betting my draw and it doesn't come or I'm betting my two pair but the turn brings a nice face card etc. So I end up weakly check / folding. I got into this habit because it seems whenever they call me on the flop they don't like to let go of their hand and whenever I fire out a 3/4 PSB on the turn I get check/raised all in and I really don't know how to stop that happening.
It's probably not every time but it feels like every time I try that's what happens and my hand can't stand a PSB raise.

Random hand I just played, ok?

Party Poker $25 Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: $13.58
Hero (UTG): $32.12
MP: $32.90
CO: $34.72
BTN: $26.02
SB: $48.72

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with T

Hero raises to $0.85, 1 fold, CO raises to $2.90, 2 folds, BB calls $2.65, Hero raises to $11.70, CO calls $8.80, BB raises to $13.58 all in, Hero calls $1.88, CO calls $1.88

Flop: ($40.84) 6

(3 players - 1 is all in)
Hero bets $18.54 all in, CO calls $18.54

Turn: ($77.92) 8

(3 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($77.92) 6

(3 players - 2 are all in)

Clar

bigspenda73

10-11-2008, 11:46 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

Well I doubt you're calling when he bets the river again on a blank card right, since you called to try and boat up, I assumed you were going to fold to a river bet.

AAT2 hand is fine, once again though, I'm not all about opening for pot. Search "PLO nutty chewy" there's a great article on PF hands and raise sizing somewhere on 2+2.

AAKK on a QJx flop is perfectly acceptable in my book if you've put a lot of money in PF, you'll generally have 8 outs, could perhaps have a backdoor flush draw (we'd call that 1 more out) and might find yourself flipping against like top 2 or pr+wrap (since you have blockers) quite a bit.

tncatfish43

02-03-2009, 10:23 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 71

try reading one of Annie Dukes books cant think of the name of it.The concensus in in the poker world is that she is one of the top omaha players in the world

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I suck at omaha someone please help :(

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