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I really want to call here...

  
 
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KoRnholio
Old 05-22-2007, 07:40 PM     Post subject: I really want to call here... #1 (permalink)  
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 Cryptologic 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

UTG+1 ($124.38)
Hero ($84.50)
MP1 ($171.21)
MP2 ($7.56)
MP3 ($133.62)
CO ($52.19)
Button ($103.00)
SB ($70.25)
BB ($60.00)
UTG ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 4, K, K, 3.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP1 raises to $6.50, MP2 raises to $7.56 and is all in, 6 folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (41.36 SB) 5, 2, K (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Turn: (20.68 BB) 4 (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $32.74, MP1 calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: ($96 pot) 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 goes all in...

It's going to cost me just $44 to call since villain has be covered. $44 to win $140 is a little over 3:1 on a call. Problem is that I am pretty sure the villain has AAxx with spades here. Whether he has another little card to make a straight with or not, I really don't know. Villain seemed okay and I had been playing very tight postflop.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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salsa4ever
Old 05-22-2007, 10:20 PM #2 (permalink)  
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with those odds and a flush draw that didn't complete, I would be compelled to call.
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well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
 
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bigspenda73
Old 05-22-2007, 11:49 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 So betting the flop is not a good idea?
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swiggidy
Old 05-23-2007, 12:03 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
So betting the flop is not a good idea?
I don't get it either. Basically any turn is going to be good enough to put the rest in knowing hero is ahead. Is this drastically different than top 2 in holdem on a rainbow un-connected board?

Is this PL? The HH is kinda weird.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
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Fnord
Old 05-23-2007, 12:34 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Sticking the rest in might be the better river play.
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KoRnholio
Old 05-23-2007, 12:50 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 The HH is weird because the only converter that works for crypto is a limit hold'em one that I have to manually edit the bet and pot sizes.

I could bet the flop, but on that uncoordinated of a board, a free card is rarely going to give someone else a better hand. And I want the preflop raisor to have a shot at this dry board before I tell him I am willing to put money into it.

In my experience, with just 2 active players left in the hand, the preflop raisor will almost always bet this board.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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swiggidy
Old 05-23-2007, 03:52 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoRnholio
The HH is weird because the only converter that works for crypto is a limit hold'em one that I have to manually edit the bet and pot sizes.

I could bet the flop, but on that uncoordinated of a board, a free card is rarely going to give someone else a better hand. And I want the preflop raisor to have a shot at this dry board before I tell him I am willing to put money into it.

In my experience, with just 2 active players left in the hand, the preflop raisor will almost always bet this board.
If he has AA and he was good wouldn't he check behind for the same reason? Any other type of hand (9TJQ, some 2 pair, etc) also completely missed this flop so if he bet he would either fold to your raise, (or if you called you would lead the turn where he would also fold)?

When exactly in the hand do you put him on AAxx? If it was pre-flop a lot of my rambling isn't so relevant I guess.
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(")_(")
 
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KoRnholio
Old 05-23-2007, 05:21 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
When exactly in the hand do you put him on AAxx? If it was pre-flop a lot of my rambling isn't so relevant I guess.
Even at 100PLO, a large number of people raise AAxx+extras and very little else. Pre-flop I suspected he had aces, but once he called on the turn I just seemed sure he had AA+spades. I suppose a hand like KQJT or 6789 (again, likely with spades for both) is also possible, but people tend to overvalue the biggest overpair, knowing that they have a few more outs against 2 pair.

Quote:
Any other type of hand (9TJQ, some 2 pair, etc) also completely missed this flop so if he bet he would either fold to your raise, (or if you called you would lead the turn where he would also fold)?
If he has nothing, I want him to stab at the pot I was planning on going for a check-call/donk any turn line (bet size dependent on how dangerous the card is).

Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
If he has AA and he was good wouldn't he check behind for the same reason?
Lately in my games, I have seen people (ie, non-donks or former donks who have been stacked so much with one pair) doing a lot more checking behind with aces on the flop after having raised preflop. Usually they do it on draw-heavy boards where they can peek at a turn card to avoid getting check-raised by a big draw. But the more I think about it, checking behind a lot with aces on the flop (regardless of texture) makes a lot of sense.

Anyways, he had AA76 with spades for the nut straight. I still don't mind my play in the hand because he pretty much had to hit his ace or a gin drawing card (exactly the 4 of spades) in order to be correct in calling a pot sized bet on the turn.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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bigspenda73
Old 05-23-2007, 05:37 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Is his turn call standard with just Overpair+OESD?

Not for him, for a good solid player, who's calling the turn?

I might lean towards a call b/c the draw is well hidden. We all (me and you at least) put him on AAxx with 2 spades. The fact that he can bluff any spade river (if stacks were a little deeper) plus the fact that when he hits his straight sets have to pay him.

Im not saying he was thinking this, but is this the thought process a thinking player would go through?
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KoRnholio
Old 05-23-2007, 06:16 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Is his turn call standard with just Overpair+OESD?

Not for him, for a good solid player, who's calling the turn?

I might lean towards a call b/c the draw is well hidden. We all (me and you at least) put him on AAxx with 2 spades. The fact that he can bluff any spade river (if stacks were a little deeper) plus the fact that when he hits his straight sets have to pay him.

Im not saying he was thinking this, but is this the thought process a thinking player would go through?
His equity is pretty good even with one card left to draw to. If my bet was all in for slightly less than the pot size, he has just the right odds to call even if I turn my hand face up:

Omaha Hi: 40 enumerated boards containing 5s 4s Kc 2d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks 4d Kh 3h 28 70.00 12 30.00 0 0.00 0.700
As 7s Ac 6c 12 30.00 28 70.00 0 0.00 0.300

That being the case, it's a pretty easy call since he has implied odds on the river, especially for his hidden straight draw. The backdoor flush is also pretty well hidden, but I am pretty sure that if he pushed a river spade that I would have folded.

The only implied odds that I (set of kings) have against him is when he pays me off if the 2:spades: comes or when the board pairs low and he thinks his aces up are good (not too likely, but possible).

Against 2 pair he is actually in great shape, and I could very well be holding this instead of a set (from his perspective).

Omaha Hi: 40 enumerated boards containing 5s 4s Kc 2d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks 4d Qh 5h 22 55.00 18 45.00 0 0.00 0.550
As 7s Ac 6d 18 45.00 22 55.00 0 0.00 0.450
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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