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I play AJ bad

  
 
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Fnord
Old 09-26-2007, 07:08 AM     Post subject: I play AJ bad #1 (permalink)  
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My table image is kinda loose and aggro. I'm running 33/26 at this table.

The SB is an ABC wanna-be TAgg who isn't aggro enough and folds too much. He could be playing back at me light. I don't have a very high opinion of the BB.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Fnord is Button with J, A.
3 folds, Fnord raises, SB 3-bets, BB calls, Fnord calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 4, 2, 2 (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Fnord calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 9 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Fnord raises..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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KoRnholio
Old 09-26-2007, 07:29 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 These are the kind of spots where I end up spewing bets and then wondering why my unpaired+unsuited big cards are losing me money.

I guess just fold the turn to the BB bet. I will run this line with overpairs a lot, since the pot is bloated on the flop, and people tend to call down if you don't raise the flop.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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DrivingDog
Old 09-26-2007, 08:51 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Usually i just call here with SB left to act and fold to a c/r or fold the river UI but lately i'm leaning towards trying to find a fold on the turn in these situations.

Raising seems less than ideal since getting 3.5:1 with 0-6 outs if i'm behind + whatever FE i have vs. AK, AQ, pp in a fairly big pot vs. my opponent(s) having 3-15 outs if i'm ahead... it just doesn't seem profitable.
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Jibalob
Old 09-26-2007, 10:43 AM #4 (permalink)  
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I like this play if you put sb on AQ/AK and expect him to fold.

You say your opinion of bb isnt very high and this is exactly how your average donk would play Ax here. "omgtheflopraisercheckedtomeacehighisgooootbecause hewasbluffingthewholetime".

I dont mind seeing a river here once sb is out of the picture and the turn raise will probably get you a cheap showdown anyway if the river turns a blank.
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pokerfanatic
Old 09-26-2007, 12:57 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibalob
I like this play if you put sb on AQ/AK and expect him to fold.

You say your opinion of bb isnt very high and this is exactly how your average donk would play Ax here. "omgtheflopraisercheckedtomeacehighisgooootbecause hewasbluffingthewholetime".

I dont mind seeing a river here once sb is out of the picture and the turn raise will probably get you a cheap showdown anyway if the river turns a blank.
well if an opinion of a player isn't very high this usualy can lead to knowing a few things bout him... if he has a decent pair or bettor he isn't folding... and if he does have AK/AQ he'll probably peal anyways...

I have to wonder what the hell the BB is doing calling a 3 bet pf, calling SB bet on the flop then leading out the turn when SB checks? A9? A2(waiting for the turn to raise SB)? As he said i figure that BB has some sort of Ace rag and hit something out there he feels that he doesn't want to miss a bet on... your raise might have just lead you straight into a 3bet or cap situation which either way I'm sure you can fold.
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Jibalob
Old 09-26-2007, 01:13 PM #6 (permalink)  
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^^^^
That too.


It obv depends on how bb has played other hands etc etc, I'm folding just as often as I'm raising here depending on the villain.

That said, the only hands I'm worried about from bb are K9s and A9s..... or possibly even a flush draw but we're ahead of most unpaired FDs here anyway.
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pokerfanatic
Old 09-26-2007, 02:09 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibalob
^^^^
That too.


It obv depends on how bb has played other hands etc etc, I'm folding just as often as I'm raising here depending on the villain.

That said, the only hands I'm worried about from bb are K9s and A9s..... or possibly even a flush draw but we're ahead of most unpaired FDs here anyway.
Fnord has the Ac so he can't have A9s in clubs
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Jibalob
Old 09-26-2007, 02:25 PM #8 (permalink)  
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OK so

2 ways to make A9s
3 ways to make K9s

I cant see villain having anything else that has Fnord beat unless he sucks so bad that he calls a 3-bet preflop with A9os.
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Fnord
Old 09-26-2007, 04:16 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Why are we putting BB on 9x?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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DrivingDog
Old 09-26-2007, 04:42 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why are we putting BB on 9x?
I agree trying to narrow your opponent's range to just one possible hand is a bit off as well.

Without knowing more about him except that he's 'bad' it's impossible to narrow his range much. A FD is a definite possibility given his cold call on the flop. 9x is possible as is 4x and 2x and 55-88, TT, JJ. A slowplayed 22 or QQ+ is less likely as is a 99 that just hit. Some kind of goofy bluff is possible as well.

Obviously your raise suggests you are banking on him having a flush draw or at worst some small pair you can possibly draw out on.

Without being able to put him on a range preflop it's hard to know whether your raise is +EV long-term or not. I suspect it isn't but if it is I'd like to hear why...
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Fnord
Old 09-26-2007, 05:36 PM #11 (permalink)  
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I was leaning towards a small/medium pocket pair or 2 big cards that missed horribly but woke up when ABC put up the "For Sale" sign. Sometimes I probably run into the monster under the bed too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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DrivingDog
Old 09-26-2007, 09:08 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
I was leaning towards a small/medium pocket pair or 2 big cards that missed horribly but woke up when ABC put up the "For Sale" sign. Sometimes I probably run into the monster under the bed too.
So you can take the free showdown or bet if you improve, is that it? SB probably packs up on the turn (being Weak Tight and all) so if you win more than about 1/5 times you make a profit on the play. Yeah i can see the logic in that...
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KoRnholio
Old 09-26-2007, 09:29 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 BB's play smells like a pp 55-88, and I think he's showing it down every time unless a big scare card like A of spades hits the river.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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Fnord
Old 09-27-2007, 04:40 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Results: He calls, river blanks, I check behind, AJo > ATo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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DrivingDog
Old 09-27-2007, 05:58 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Results: He calls, river blanks, I check behind, AJo > ATo.
You didn't show the three parallel universes where he had 55, 88, or 9x.

nh.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 10-09-2007, 02:20 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 Shouldn't we be betting the river or do people just not fold since we didn't raise the flop?
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euphoricism
Old 10-09-2007, 02:39 AM #17 (permalink)  
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They can really only call with stuff that beats you, so that'd be a wasted bet. You might get a hero call from some dumbass Ax but I think that'd be "rare" at best.
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Ragnar4
Old 10-12-2007, 06:01 AM #18 (permalink)  
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I don't mind the peel to the turn. In fact I think you have odds.

But I don't like the turn raise. That play requires a really good read that I can't make yet.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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pokerfanatic
Old 10-12-2007, 02:56 PM #19 (permalink)  
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well i was thinking about this hand more and i kinda like the raise because it will throw off you opponents enough to that they might call down weaker when you have a big hand and run practicably the same line...

I have been thinking a lot lately about when to bluff and what boards are actually bluffable... This board seems like a dry as hell board given that it is 3 bet PF majority the time no one really made a set or a straight so your either up against a couple overs or an over pair (maybe a big FD), with the 9 hitting it doesn't seem to help anyone in this situation unless one of the players had 99... it seems odd to me how the BB called PF for a 3bet then called a flop bet, and then lead the turn after SB checked... it sounds like to me a classic middle pair, FD maybe type hand...

I have to agree with fnord now i look more into it...
Pros and Cons about the raise... if he has a Pair he wont fold, if he has a FD he wont fold, given that his hand looks like one of this you have very little fold equity on your raise given you have piratically air but more likely 2oc... this makes me not really want to put in the extra bet here given that a large amount of the time he will call and then you are either forced to checked behind the river if you miss or fire off another barrel... It will however make your opponents call you more loosely when you run that line with a big hand though so that's a plus and might be worth doing...
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"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

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Fnord
Old 10-12-2007, 06:40 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
Pros and Cons about the raise... if he has a Pair he wont fold, if he has a FD he wont fold
If he has a pair, he might fold but fail that we have outs.
If he has a flush draw, we have the best hand.

I don't see this as an advertising value hand. I just don't beleive that BB is strong here and SB certainly can't call 2 cold here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
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mewrat
Old 10-18-2007, 05:37 PM #21 (permalink)  

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Raise flop, lead turn, pay off any blank river HU.
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