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I make big laydowns for one bet on the river (LC)

  
 
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TylerK
Old 08-03-2005, 04:50 PM     Post subject: I make big laydowns for one bet on the river (LC) #1 (permalink)  
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I play bad. The river donkbet put me right off my plan. Because I'm dumb. And I react poorly to other people being dumb.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q.
UTG calls, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) A, T, 5 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 7 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (8.50 BB) K (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Results in white below:
UTG has 2c 2d (one pair, twos).
MP has 9s 9c (one pair, nines).
Outcome: MP wins 10.50 BB.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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euphoricism
Old 08-03-2005, 04:54 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I think you're no good here way more than you're good.
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Fnord
Old 08-03-2005, 04:59 PM #3 (permalink)  
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You did this to yourself on the turn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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rubixstreub
Old 08-03-2005, 05:13 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I think this is exactly my problem with the .5/1 game and emulating the way you higher ups do it.

I lose so much money playing middle pairs like this, and I lose even more betting into opponents playing crap Ax or sucking me out with something worse.

Betting into checkers/callers with no action back with middle pair seems like a good idea at this level, but is my EV going up or down over the long term running with something like QQ or JJ against an Ace or King on the board with 4 people seeing the flop at my meager level?
Come give me advice.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-58488.htm
 
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A'aag
Old 08-03-2005, 05:57 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I agree with Fnord, but I'll also add that almost every time I bet the turn planning to check behind on the river lately I get donked.
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TylerK
Old 08-03-2005, 06:17 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Trust me, I'm well aware how bad I screwed up this hand, hence the handy (LC) tag. :P
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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pokerfanatic
Old 08-03-2005, 07:19 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubix13
I think this is exactly my problem with the .5/1 game and emulating the way you higher ups do it.

I lose so much money playing middle pairs like this, and I lose even more betting into opponents playing crap Ax or sucking me out with something worse.

Betting into checkers/callers with no action back with middle pair seems like a good idea at this level, but is my EV going up or down over the long term running with something like QQ or JJ against an Ace or King on the board with 4 people seeing the flop at my meager level?
usually people that run this line at .5/1 have it more often then the ones at 3/6 would... 3/6 players are smart enough to try and trick your ass into making a fold like this one... I don't see the that line much at .5/1 from smart players as a bluff, you might however run across it if some donk picks up a strong draw or thinks you might fold...


Sometimes you get semi thinkers at these levels that think they can out smart you by making it look as if there on a draw sometimes you just have to get lucky when choosing this kind of play but I had the felling the guy was capable of running this line on complete shit...

Today I had that happen to me the hand is below:
Sorry but the hand converter seems down...

***** Hand History for Game 2471121973 *****
$0.50/$1 Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, August 03, 13:02:27 EDT 2005
Table Table 25390 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 9: pkrfanatic ( $48 )
Seat 8: mitch3232 ( $21 )
Seat 1: mdje05 ( $27.25 )
Seat 6: Miss_Tilt ( $16.37 )
Seat 10: jbfII ( $27.58 )
Seat 7: Spoot ( $22.50 )
Seat 2: MA5T3RM1ND ( $25.25 )
Seat 5: Jelle26 ( $22 )
Seat 4: all_world23 ( $4 )
Seat 3: Chando16 ( $24.50 )
Spoot posts small blind [$0.25].
pkrfanatic posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to pkrfanatic [ Jc Js ]
>You have options at Table 25362 Table!.
jbfII calls [$0.50].
mdje05 folds.
>You have options at Table 25362 Table!.
MA5T3RM1ND raises [$1].
Chando16 folds.
all_world23 folds.
Jelle26 calls [$1].
Miss_Tilt folds.
Spoot folds.
pkrfanatic raises [$1].
jbfII calls [$1].
>You have options at Table 25405 Table!.
MA5T3RM1ND folds.
Jelle26 calls [$0.50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, 5s, Qc ]
pkrfanatic bets [$0.50].
>You have options at Table 31014 Table!.
jbfII folds.
Jelle26 calls [$0.50].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8c ]
pkrfanatic bets [$1].
Jelle26 raises [$2].
pkrfanatic calls [$1].
** Dealing River ** [ 4d ]
pkrfanati09 checks.
Jelle26 checks.
pkrfanatic shows [ Jc, Js ] a pair of jacks.
Jelle26 doesn't show [ 6h, 3h ] a pair of threes.
pkrfanatic wins $10.25 from the main pot with a pair of jacks.
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rubixstreub
Old 08-03-2005, 07:57 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Yes pokerfanatic01,

This is exactly the same kind of situation I'm finding so difficult. I think you calling him down is much easier headsup- especially after the donk bet on the turn.

Say you played the same hand, but he reraises you on the flop? Are you letting this go or calling it down (assuming no solid reads)? Are you still betting the turn with two or more callers on the flop? I don't mind being the aggressor and betting into a calling station headsup when I have middle pair, but I have a lot of trouble deciding what to do on the turn with such a hand with 2 or more players still in.
Come give me advice.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-58488.htm
 
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Gatlin Dan
Old 08-03-2005, 08:17 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Putting yourself in a position where you are forced to overcall after checking the turn is weak-tight but I do think you are beat more often than not here too.

Laying down the best hand is always a big mistake, but if I played the turn like you did here, I fold on the river too. after the second overcard comes with two people still in the pot, you can be almost 100% certain you QQ is no good in this raised pot.

I think River Fold good...turn check bad.

"A lot of fortunes are made on what you don't play."--"Miami" John Cernuto
 
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TylerK
Old 08-03-2005, 09:02 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan
Putting yourself in a position where you are forced to overcall after checking the turn is weak-tight but I do think you are beat more often than not here too.
The thing is, UTG's river bet came completely out of left field. I thought it was entirely possible that I had the other guy beat, and I wouldn't have been in a position to overcall if it was checked to MP on the river.

My thinking at the time was that UTG must have been drawing to the nut flush, and instead spiked his K on the river and thought it might be good.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 08-03-2005, 10:33 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 eeew, yuck, blah.

Well, I wouldn't have over-called the river either, but you did fuck yourself over on the turn. Any reason why you didn't continue?

Plus, its only one mistake, not anything to beat yourself up over.


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TylerK
Old 08-03-2005, 10:44 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Well, I wouldn't have over-called the river either, but you did fuck yourself over on the turn. Any reason why you didn't continue?
I put my skirt on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Plus, its only one mistake, not anything to beat yourself up over.
Eh, I'm not. Just thought it was a silly situation to get myself into.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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Trikflow77
Old 08-03-2005, 11:21 PM #13 (permalink)  
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with the overcall i wouldn't call either......but i would have raised the donk stop n go on the turn.
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Demiparadigm
Old 08-04-2005, 01:14 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trikflow77
with the overcall i wouldn't call either......but i would have raised the donk stop n go on the turn.
Ummm.... what stop n go? Hero bet the flop and checked the turn.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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A'aag
Old 08-04-2005, 01:56 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trikflow77
with the overcall i wouldn't call either......but i would have raised the donk stop n go on the turn.
Ummm.... what stop n go? Hero bet the flop and checked the turn.
Dag, I misread the action too. So...my previous comment is still true but is not really relevant to this discussion..
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