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i just don't see anything wrong with this flop call

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littleogre

07-15-2007, 08:03 PM Post subject: i just don't see anything wrong with this flop call

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 1,344

littleogre has a little shameless behaviour in the past

Hand #44158017-8490 at Elkhart ($.25/$.50 Hold'em Kill)
Started at 15/Jul/07 15:16:44

cerealkilr74 is at seat 0 with $22.40.
trnjana is at seat 1 with $25.40.
eddie120 is at seat 2 with $4.85.
QuestaBob is at seat 3 with $23.35 (sitting out).
GroundDown is at seat 4 with $24.70.
solidplay88 is at seat 5 with $28.60.
nupaT is at seat 6 with $10.15.
firebirdz is at seat 7 with $29.20.
mayajade is at seat 8 with $24.90.
littleogre is at seat 9 with $9.75.
The button is at seat 8.
The partial kill button is at seat 1.

littleogre posts the small blind of $.10.
cerealkilr74 posts the big blind of $.25.
firebirdz posts out of turn for $.35($.10 dead blind).

cerealkilr74: -- --
trnjana: -- --
eddie120: -- --
GroundDown: -- --
solidplay88: -- --
nupaT: -- --
firebirdz: -- --
mayajade: -- --
littleogre: Qs Jc

Pre-flop:

trnjana folds. eddie120 calls. GroundDown folds.
solidplay88 folds. nupaT folds. firebirdz checks.
mayajade calls. littleogre calls. cerealkilr74
checks.

Flop (board: 9d 8d 2s):

littleogre bets $.25. cerealkilr74 raises to $.50.
eddie120 folds. firebirdz calls. mayajade folds.
littleogre calls.

Turn (board: 9d 8d 2s Ad):

littleogre checks. cerealkilr74 checks. firebirdz
checks.

River (board: 9d 8d 2s Ad Qc):

littleogre checks. cerealkilr74 checks. firebirdz
checks.

Showdown:

littleogre shows Qs Jc.
littleogre has Qs Jc 9d Ad Qc: a pair of queens.
cerealkilr74 mucks cards.
(cerealkilr74 has 9h 3c.)
firebirdz mucks cards.
(firebirdz has Th 9c.)

Hand #44158017-8490 Summary:

$.10 is raked from a pot of $2.85.
littleogre wins $2.75 with a pair of queens.
----------------------------------------------------------------

I figure we have 10 total outs but 6-7 true outs. when it gets back around to me the pot has 2.60 so even if we play tight and only count outs we have plenty big pot to call. If either villan bet the turn then maybe i fold. They give me free card so i hit queen on river. Even still if either player show balls and bet maybe i fold they both check. both check lucky me i win. Then some jerk start talking shit about me hiting a back door pair draw. What the heck is a bd pair anyway. I mean if someone is gona insult me that should have the decency to get the termonology right.

anyway should i have bet the river? I felt that a worse hand calling was not likely andi did not wand to get raised so i pussed out and checked.

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KoRnholio

07-16-2007, 02:08 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Out of position with 4 opponents on that flop I think a check is more prudent. But as played it's fine. No way we're folding the flop with those odds. River is fine, with 2 opponents, an ace and a 3 flush on board (and also a straight if someone has JT) a bet will only get called by a better hand (or perhaps something like K9 or QT).

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pokerfanatic

07-16-2007, 04:04 PM

#3 (permalink)

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well you already have one sb in, so calling a single raise is pretty much automatic even if you think you're behind you still have outs, if it was 3 bet back to me on the flop i would have mucked, and if they had bet the turn i would have mucked, given they checked though it seems the flush card scared them, but i highly doubt they will fold an ace to a lead, or any pair for that matter, so do we fire the river for value? wouldn't the flush bet the made hand on the turn at this level? are they passive enough to not bet an Ace because it's 3 flushed out there? i dunno everything is leading me to want to bet my par of Qs on the river here... if you get raised it's obvious you can't win.

hmm, does anyone else have an argument for or against betting the par on the river?

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euphoricism

07-18-2007, 01:56 PM

#4 (permalink)

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leading that flop was dumb.

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elipsesjeff

07-18-2007, 08:08 PM

#5 (permalink)

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I dont mind the flop lead, as he may just take it down in thelimped pot. It only has to work like 1-5 with the dead blind in there, and if it buys you a free river card then even better. Once you bet you definitely cant fold to one raise.

You've got to bet da river once they checked the Ace.

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littleogre

07-19-2007, 02:32 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 1,344

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

leading that flop was dumb.

sorry but no it wasn't given the fact that they way the table was playing they were capable of folding that hand atleast 1 out of 6. Also even if they played i had outs.

NWNewell

07-19-2007, 04:28 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL

Posts: 283

Well... Generally, I don't like betting into 3 players with this flop/draw. I think the flop sucks for getting all the limpers to fold out, and you just might get raised.

But with that said... you do have two completely random hands with the poster and the BB. So against one real limper and two random hands and your draw, you have decent equity. Taking credit for drawing out if you get called, you really only need everyone to fold a little more than 10% (maybe 12%... but don't quote me on the exact number. I didn't run the math throughly)

So, I don't mind the flop lead. Although I probably would have lend towards c/c'ing with the two diamonds out there. Not a hard rule. Just my thoughts. probably only about a 3-5% difference in equity. But, if someone does have a diamond draw, you are probably going to get raised, and you've got some reverse implied odds if you hit a T, Q, or J of diamonds.

As far as the rest of the hand, I'd probably play it the same way.

And check/call the river. I don't know that there are many hands that you can beat that would call a river bet from you. But at 0.25/0.50, I guess it could be a lot........

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i just don't see anything wrong with this flop call

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