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Fnord

08-17-2007, 05:21 PM Post subject: I gots a draw

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Reads:
EP is loose by online standards, maybe tight by live standards. Passivish post-flop, been talking strategy with the fish said he stopped playing J9o 2 years ago. Probably has some ability to read hands.

LP Cookie-cutter Asian degen. Plays too many hands, generally passive with erratic flashes of aggression. Words can't describe how much I rove these guys.

EP limps, 2 or 3 other guys limp, LP raises (usually a good hand, but might just be building a pot with god-knows-what.) I call in the BB with :Ks: :Ts:

About half a rack in the pot
:Qs: :Th:

I donk, EP raises, folded to LP who 3-bets it, EP calls out of turn, I cap it because big pots are fun, I have the second best hand and the worst hand figures to be paying both of us off. Although I really hope to improve on the turn so my hand is hard to define.

About a rack in the pot into the turn:

DOH!
I check making my hand obvious to anyone with a clue. EP bets, LP calls, I call.

Over a rack in the pot going to the river:
:Js: GIN!
I quickly bet and fumble my bet failing at my angry strong=weak bet impression (in retrosepect a bad idea), EP folds and laughs "math had nothing to do with that", LP raises. I tank.... then just call because he raised pre-flop.

He has a black Ace Nine...... of Clubs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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AHiltz

08-17-2007, 05:34 PM

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Quote:

..... of Clubs.

BAWAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

bigspenda73

08-17-2007, 05:55 PM

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words cannot describe how bad not 3tapping that river is. Im putting him on AK all the time and he'll say "ZOMG HOW CAN YOU RAISE A DRAW YOU DONKEY AFJDAKLFDALSKJFLDSJAFLJDSLFDS"

Fnord

08-17-2007, 06:09 PM

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I've yet to see AK 3-bet a flop like this in a live game and if it did happen I would expect it from a total spewtard (TAgg or LAgg.) That's mostly an online thing. My only reservation is that with all 4 non-ace broadways in sight it rules out a lot of the sort of hands that fit his action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

KoRnholio

08-17-2007, 06:48 PM

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Most of the "asian degens" in my local B&M game will only raise the river with the nut flush there. Although they are the 3/6 showdown muppets.

Fnord your thread makes me really wish that we had good limit games up here. My options are pretty much 3/6 holdem or 4/8 dealer's choice (pineapple/ crazy pineapple /holdem/ Omaha hi only [aka BINGO]), both with pretty oppressive rakes.

There is a 10/20 half kill game that gathers for a few hours a night but I believe that they play half O8 and half hold'em. I've never really considered playing it, but soon I will have some good sized online cashouts coming my way... I've dabbled in O8 but I generally have sucked in split pot games.

I guess my question is, will the (near) highest stakes limit games in an area still attract some major donks? Conventional wisdom seems to indicate that the 2nd highest limits are the best bang for the buck.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

daven

08-17-2007, 10:41 PM

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Raise this river, hope to get it capped.
I like the flop action, covers things up nicely - and once people think they have put you on a hand they rarely adjust based on how you bet later streets.
I don't put him on a flush draw, that would mean 3-betting the flop with no pair (you have the ten), and no set - I guess maybe if he has straight AND flush draw, but that's only one of a number of hands here. The river, the only things that have you beat are Ax spades, AK or any hand with a nine will hit the river hard but are dominated.

Fnord

08-17-2007, 11:09 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

Raise this river, hope to get it capped.

The river might be a 3-bet, but getting capped here sucks given my opponent's range. This isn't online tunnel vision mash the raise button limit poker. Also, betting is uncapped when the pot is heads-up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

euphoricism

08-18-2007, 12:41 AM

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The second nuts live against "Cookie-cutter Asian degen. Plays too many hands, generally passive with erratic flashes of aggression. " will always be with a 3bet to me.

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daven

08-18-2007, 12:44 AM

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Guess I still have a lot to learn! Haven't played live except with friends over beer, winner takes all but the money's nothing. And didn't know about the uncapped betting either, so you could 5- and 6-bet?!?
I guess I don't understand his range, after the flop I include AA, AK, AQ, KK, qq, JJ, ten ten, 99, a9s(?), j9s. 3-betting the flop suggests a made hand to me (or the double draw).
after the turn i guess i get rid of j9, qq and maybe AA, KK
Still a lot that you have beaten in that list. Please explain how I'm thinking wrongly! some things i just don't understand yet...

euphoricism

08-18-2007, 12:49 AM

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A) its a ring game, not a tourney so no winner take all stuff
B) Your range is too small for casino poker.
C) The 3bet on the flop *is* a sign of strength, but he might just be dying for a free card. And well, we don't care. We're playing our hand without too much thought as to what his is
D) Yup, 5, 6, 8, 15 bet it if you want. Highest I ever got was like 6 bet and I called 7. AAAJJ vs Royal flush. Atleast I got the bad beat jackpot.
E) Yeah, I think we still should 3bet here.

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elipsesjeff

08-18-2007, 09:48 AM

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I like the way you played it, I'm not a fan of the river 3bet as if we're wrong we have to pay 2 but if we're right we only get one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kornholio

There is a 10/20 half kill game that gathers for a few hours a night but I believe that they play half O8 and half hold'em. I've never really considered playing it

That sounds like a blast. I'd be all over that game like stink on shit.

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Fnord

08-18-2007, 10:08 AM

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Random people just don't pull shit like this in live games.

BTW: No reads other than I had seen them fold pre-draw and none of them are regulars.

PokerStars Game #11550680803: 5 Card Draw Limit ($2/$4) - 2007/08/18 - 06:00:00 (ET)
Table 'Simeisa' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Scoobyrv ($110 in chips)
Seat 2: svlao ($91 in chips)
Seat 4: StarStripe ($88.50 in chips)
Seat 5: ralle99 ($81 in chips)
Seat 6: Fnord ($200 in chips)
ralle99: posts small blind $1
Fnord: posts big blind $2
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to Fnord [9d 7d Js Ah 7c]
Scoobyrv: folds
Scoobyrv leaves the table
svlao: folds
StarStripe: folds
ralle99: raises $2 to $4
Fnord: calls $2
ralle99: discards 2 cards
Fnord: discards 3 cards [9d Js Ah]
Dealt to Fnord [7d 7c] [5h 6h Ad]
ralle99: bets $4
Fnord: calls $4
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ralle99: shows [Ts Jh 7h 6c Ks] (high card King)
Fnord: shows [5h 7d 6h Ad 7c] (a pair of Sevens)
Fnord collected $16 from pot

PokerStars Game #11550683624: 5 Card Draw Limit ($2/$4) - 2007/08/18 - 06:00:24 (ET)
Table 'Simeisa' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: svlao ($91 in chips)
Seat 4: StarStripe ($88.50 in chips)
Seat 5: ralle99 ($73 in chips)
Seat 6: Fnord ($208 in chips)
Fnord: posts small blind $1
svlao: posts big blind $2
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to Fnord [9s Js Ts Kd Jc]
StarStripe: folds
ralle99: folds
Fnord: raises $2 to $4
svlao: calls $2
Fnord: discards 3 cards [9s Ts Kd]
Dealt to Fnord [Js Jc] [Kc Ad 8s]
svlao: discards 1 card
Fnord: checks
svlao: bets $4
Fnord: calls $4
*** SHOW DOWN ***
svlao: shows [9c Qc Tc Jh Ac] (high card Ace)
Fnord: shows [Kc Js Ad 8s Jc] (a pair of Jacks)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

elipsesjeff

08-18-2007, 08:32 PM

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bvb tho it seems pretty standard, never fold a pair.

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Fnord

08-18-2007, 08:51 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

bvb tho it seems pretty standard, never fold a pair.

By the book hand 1 the 7s are a fold. JJ is a thin call.

I call in these spots because Hold'em players try lame bluffs to blow people off pots and I'm willing to make some badish $4 calls to protect pots that are usually 3-4 times as large.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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