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michael1123
Old 09-07-2004, 07:33 AM     Post subject: Humorous hand #1 (permalink)  
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Maybe it was because it was late at night, but this hand really cracked me up.
CARDSON
PokerStars Game #673412565: Hold'em Limit ($15/$30) - 2004/09/07 - 03:25:29
(ET)
Table 'Siwa' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: EvitaPeron ($257 in chips)
Seat 2: HOLDEMBACK ($42 in chips)
Seat 3: EASSA ($243 in chips)
Seat 4: Dr_N0 ($2518.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Horton1950 ($801.50 in chips)
Seat 6: donkey ($217 in chips)
Seat 7: ACESUP313 ($173 in chips)
Seat 8: quantum ($719 in chips)
Seat 9: michael1123 ($1348.50 in chips)
Seat 10: gzsmith ($562 in chips)
EASSA: posts small blind $10
Dr_N0: posts big blind $15
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to michael1123 [5s 4s]
Horton1950: folds
donkey: folds
ACESUP313: folds
quantum: folds
michael1123: calls $15
gzsmith: raises $15 to $30
EvitaPeron: folds
HOLDEMBACK: folds
EASSA: folds
Dr_N0: calls $15
michael1123: calls $15
*** FLOP *** [Qs Qc Kd]
Dr_N0: checks
michael1123: checks
gzsmith: bets $15
Dr_N0: calls $15
michael1123: folds
*** TURN *** [Qs Qc Kd] [5d]
Dr_N0: checks
gzsmith: bets $30
Dr_N0: raises $30 to $60
gzsmith: calls $30
*** RIVER *** [Qs Qc Kd 5d] [Jh]
Dr_N0: checks
gzsmith: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Dr_N0: shows [2s 7s] (a pair of Queens)
gzsmith: shows [Ac Kc] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
gzsmith collected $247 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $250 | Rake $3
Board [Qs Qc Kd 5d Jh]
Seat 1: EvitaPeron folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: HOLDEMBACK (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: EASSA (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Dr_N0 (big blind) showed [2s 7s] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 5: Horton1950 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: donkey folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: ACESUP313 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: quantum folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: michael1123 folded on the Flop
Seat 10: gzsmith showed [Ac Kc] and won ($247) with two pair, Kings and Queens
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Fnord
Old 09-07-2004, 07:59 AM #2 (permalink)  
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I fold 54s pre-flop at the .5/1 game. Certainly at the PokerSharks 15/30 game this is a clear fold as I would expect mostly 2-4 way pots. Heads-up I wouldn't defend my BB with it either, however I would jump into a multi-pot with in from my SB/BB for 1SB or less.

As for Dr. N0's play, it's a clear turn-raise bluff, which should be effective at this level (although his pre-flop hand selection clearly sucks.) Given gzsmith's hand, I'm a little surprised he didn't bet/call when checked to on the river.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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michael1123
Old 09-07-2004, 08:20 AM #3 (permalink)  
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I figured you'd say that about my call.

And obviously he's attempting to bluff, but its not likely to work on this monster flop after gzsmith raises after someone has limped in in front of him (meaning you know he has a real hand). Its a very silly play. The bluff raises on the turn work much more often in unraised preflop pots with rags on the board. Let alone what he has ... at least be semibluffing. I'd like the play if the flop was 533 or whatever.


Here's an interesting hand a while after that. We all ended up hitting the board big. You may again think my preflop call is loose, but I figured the two players behind me would call the raise, and I like seeing a flop with these types of hands in multiway pots.
CARDSON
PokerStars Game #673430983: Hold'em Limit ($15/$30) - 2004/09/07 - 03:39:31
(ET)
Table 'Siwa' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: EvitaPeron ($716 in chips)
Seat 2: HOLDEMBACK ($946.50 in chips)
Seat 3: Nogbert ($397.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Dr_N0 ($2279 in chips)
Seat 5: Horton1950 ($768.50 in chips)
Seat 6: ChunkyLover5 ($330 in chips)
Seat 7: HND_SYC ($556 in chips)
Seat 8: quantum ($597.50 in chips)
Seat 9: michael1123 ($1015.50 in chips)
Seat 10: gzsmith ($644 in chips)
michael1123: posts small blind $10
gzsmith: posts big blind $15
HND_SYC: posts big blind $15
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to michael1123 [8d Td]
EvitaPeron: folds
HOLDEMBACK: calls $15
Nogbert: calls $15
Dr_N0: folds
Horton1950: folds
ChunkyLover5: raises $15 to $30
HND_SYC: folds
quantum: folds
michael1123: calls $20
gzsmith: folds
HOLDEMBACK: calls $15
Nogbert: calls $15
*** FLOP *** [4s 3d 7d]
michael1123: checks
HOLDEMBACK: checks
Nogbert: checks
ChunkyLover5: bets $15
michael1123: calls $15
HOLDEMBACK: calls $15
Nogbert: raises $15 to $30
ChunkyLover5: raises $15 to $45
michael1123: calls $30
HOLDEMBACK: calls $30
Nogbert: raises $15 to $60
Betting is capped
ChunkyLover5: calls $15
michael1123: calls $15
HOLDEMBACK: calls $15
*** TURN *** [4s 3d 7d] [6h]
michael1123: checks
HOLDEMBACK: checks
Nogbert: bets $30
ChunkyLover5: calls $30
michael1123: calls $30
HOLDEMBACK: calls $30
*** RIVER *** [4s 3d 7d 6h] [Ad]
michael1123: bets $30
HOLDEMBACK: calls $30
Nogbert: calls $30
ChunkyLover5: calls $30
*** SHOW DOWN ***
michael1123: shows [8d Td] (a flush, Ace high)
HOLDEMBACK: mucks hand
Nogbert: mucks hand
ChunkyLover5: mucks hand
michael1123 collected $627 from pot
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Fnord
Old 09-07-2004, 08:34 AM #4 (permalink)  
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4 players is close for these kinds of hands, but I would clearly defend my BB with it and with a 2/3 SB format it's probably a good SB defend too.

Why not check/raise the river? Nogbert is representing the str8 and is the likely river better. At this level, I don't think a worse hand raises often enough to bet out, and with a huge pot already I wouldn't worry about getting calls.

edit: one other thought. Consider a flop cap against aware opponents the second time around. check, call one, call two, call cap just screams strong draw (flush.) Capping a flop that's probably going to be capped anyway misrepresents your hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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michael1123
Old 09-07-2004, 09:08 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why not check/raise the river? Nogbert is representing the str8 and is the likely river better. At this level, I don't think a worse hand raises often enough to bet out, and with a huge pot already I wouldn't worry about getting calls.
Two reasons. One, the two betters in this hand have to think at least Holdemback or I were on a flush draw. I don't think they're likely to bet the river when the 3rd diamond hits with my previous experience at this level, in a big pot like this. May as well get a bet in, they obviously aren't folding with this big pot.

Two, I was concerned that Holdemback had a higher flush draw, as they had just called every bet as well. Obviously I was still going to bet, but if I lead out and then get raised I can just call and only put two bets in. If I checkraise and then get reraised, I'm putting in 3 bets. I think leading on the river was the correct move in this situation.

Quote:
edit: one other thought. Consider a flop cap against aware opponents the second time around. check, call one, call two, call cap just screams strong draw (flush.) Capping a flop that's probably going to be capped anyway misrepresents your hand.
Haha, cool. I do that sometimes, but I didn't know it was correct to do so (i.e. you'd recommend it). Anyway, though, it would've been pretty strange since I probably would've checked on the turn unless a diamond hit. Capping the flop and then checking would be kind of obvious. Would've been beautifully disguised if a diamond hit though.
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Fnord
Old 09-07-2004, 09:11 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael1123
Haha, cool. I do that sometimes, but I didn't know it was correct to do so (i.e. you'd recommend it)..
Bahhh... with such a strong draw and multiple callers, it can't be very wrong. Besides, I'm not playing 15/30...

Quote:
Originally Posted by michael1123
Two reasons. One, the two betters in this hand have to think at least Holdemback or I were on a flush draw. I don't think they're likely to bet the river when the 3rd diamond hits with my previous experience at this level, in a big pot like this.
Interesting... lots of passive river play then? Still hard to beleive all 3 check it through...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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michael1123
Old 09-07-2004, 09:25 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Whoops, I didn't even realize that I didn't post the part that lists their hands. Knowing what ChunkyLover5 had, I think he'd have bet after it checked around to him, but typically I think they'd have checked it around had they not had the flush draw, knowing that it was likely that me or Holdemback was going for a checkraise. Its pretty typical when a flush or open ended straight possibility hits in a multiway pot, as they don't want to be checkraised.

But hey, you like posting things like this. Care to take a shot at guessing what they had before I post it?
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Toasty
Old 09-07-2004, 09:41 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Wow Micheal watch what your doing! at this level you are swimming with sharks and from your limited limit experiance they have to be seeing you as there lunch (please don't take offense, I'm not trying to put you down, more save you from getting eaten alive, 100BBs at this level's $3,000. Think of all the rebuys that will buy you ).

99% of them have worked there way up through years of limit play (live and online) and once they get a read on someones play they value bet them to death.

Not sure why you are choosing to play these games when you could safely play the 5/10 instead or the $200 NL.
Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
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Fnord
Old 09-07-2004, 10:07 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toasty
100BBs at this level's $3,000. Think of all the rebuys that will buy you
You could be a 1BB/100 winning player with a low variance style (a little weak/tightish) and still very easily have a -100BB swing in that game, heck -200BB isn't uncommon either. Food for thought...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toasty
99% of them have worked there way up through years of limit play (live and online) and once they get a read on someones play they value bet them to death.
I wouldn't give them that much credit. He should see some rich fish too. However, expect a lot more ABCs, TAggs, and weak/tight players than we see in the Party 3/6 game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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michael1123
Old 09-07-2004, 10:08 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Yeah ... I know. You'd be surprised at how many not so good, call down on ace high or a pair of twos, loose players play at this level though, although there definitely are some sharks.

I do have the bankroll to withstand the swings, as long as I'm not losing regularly, and I've logged 20+ hours at it in the past few days and am up overall. But I'll certainly quit playing at this level if I start having losing sessions. Thanks for the concern, though.
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Fnord
Old 09-07-2004, 10:11 AM #11 (permalink)  
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ChunkyLover5 - AA/KK/QQ/JJ/TT
HOLDEMBACK - Set or 2 pair
Nogbert - 56
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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michael1123
Old 09-07-2004, 10:36 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Total pot $630 | Rake $3
Board [4s 3d 7d 6h Ad]
Seat 1: EvitaPeron folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: HOLDEMBACK mucked [5d Ah] - a straight, Three to Seven
Seat 3: Nogbert mucked [7c 7s] - three of a kind, Sevens
Seat 4: Dr_N0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Horton1950 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ChunkyLover5 mucked [As Ac] - three of a kind, Aces
Seat 7: HND_SYC folded before Flop
Seat 8: quantum (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: michael1123 (small blind) showed [8d Td] and won ($627) with a flush,
Ace high
Seat 10: gzsmith (big blind) folded before Flop

Poor Chunky, the diamond ace on the river, and my obvious flush, must've made him want to cry.

Don't ask me why Holdemback didn't bet the turn. He was probably the worst player at the table next to Horton though. As inexperienced as I may be at this level of limit holdem, I'm a much much better player than these two are. Any hand they're in they'll bet or call down to the river, and showdown with any ace or pair, it seems. Horton will raise preflop with low suited connectors and bet down to the river without a draw or pair, unless he's raised.
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Fnord
Old 09-07-2004, 11:05 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael1123
Seat 2: HOLDEMBACK mucked [5d Ah] - a straight, Three to Seven
Wow, that's fishy. From UTG+1 too. He'd fit right in at 2/4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Toasty
Old 09-07-2004, 11:10 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by michael1123
Seat 2: HOLDEMBACK mucked [5d Ah] - a straight, Three to Seven
Wow, that's fishy. From UTG+1 too. He'd fit right in at 2/4.
Anyone got nine grand they could lend me
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