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pokerlearner
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02-21-2006, 06:08 AM
Post subject: Huge pot in live $4-$8....crazy action..... :)
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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So I was at the $4-$8 table in my local indian casino tonight. Very loose table but not too much crazy preflop action. Too many people staying till the river. got some of my big pockets cracked.
My only mistake was not raising preflop JJ from the button. I always do raise but worked for me just in this case. I promise i will raise them next time  
there is a 4-bet cap in the casino unless its HU, hence it cant go beyond cap if more than 2 players in hand
Preflop: Hero is JJ in the button
UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB checks
Flop: Jc-7c-7d
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB 3 bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 caps, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds.
Turn: Jc-7c-7d-2s
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 raises, CO calls, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero calls.
River: Jc-7c-7d-2s-9d
BB bets, UTG+1 folds,MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls.
BB shows 7-2
MP2 shows 7-9
UTG+1 is my buddy...He later told me he had the nut flush draw, but he pumped it for me on the turn because he put me on pocket Jacks. (he thinks highly of me, so he figured if i was calling in this crazy pot, i must have something solid... )
SHIP IT.....
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Nh sir. An example of passive postflop working? (although in this case it wouldn't have made any difference I don't think)
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outphase
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02-21-2006, 01:44 PM
Post subject: Re: Huge pot in live $4-$8....crazy action..... :)
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#3 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerlearner
My only mistake was not raising preflop JJ from the button. I always do raise but worked for me just in this case. I promise i will raise them next time
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I was about to comment about this then i read the post thoroughly. Good to see you know your flaw 
I like how every street was capped and you only had to raise the river once
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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I'm really not sure raising JJ OTB here does you a whole lot of good. You're still playing for sets against such a wide field.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
I'm really not sure raising JJ OTB here does you a whole lot of good. You're still playing for sets against such a wide field.
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This is so silly.
How about a 337 flop?
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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The chances of an undercard flop plus the chances of flopping a set make a raise with JJ for value no matter how many people in the pot.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
I'm really not sure raising JJ OTB here does you a whole lot of good. You're still playing for sets against such a wide field.
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This is so silly.
How about a 337 flop? |
I know what you mean, but 7 way at a B&M - I think you're probably fucked. Sacrificing some preflop value for some postflop ease of play PStove says (random hands on a 337 ucoord flop) you'll win this 30% of the time, so you're losing 70% of the time. I know the PFR's value is intrinsically there - but from my (limited) experience at B&M, its worth a good bit less. I'm still playing for set value.
There might be some worth to raising to kick the SB+BB out - but it doesn't seem likely anyway. Pumping the pot up giving people gorgeous odds to draw..
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
PStove says (random hands on a 337 ucoord flop) you'll win this 30% of the time, so you're losing 70% of the time.
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So, with the pot 7 handed this is an extremely favorable flop and justifies the preflop raise ...
Run AA through poker stove and you will find it isn't a whole lot better than JJ for this flop (my guess would be maybe 36%) ... and surely you aren't advocating limping AA?
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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No overcards for AA to make AA harder to play when K72 flops.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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I still think you have to raise for value here. You only give up half a bb, yet you can gain 3.5bb extra.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Not raising pre-flop is throwing money away. You can't hope to make up your pre-flop edge post-flop with just a call.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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ya, TT and JJ are hands I just "force" myself to reraise preflop, even behind cold callers.. especially do it if you have position
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Reason #4....
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arkitekton
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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Sklansky mentions not bothering to raise JJ in loose games where your raise won't knock people out...
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by arkitekton
Sklansky mentions not bothering to raise JJ in loose games where your raise won't knock people out...
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Massive bump... but i'm sure he means cold callers behind you. It's general assumption that players who limped in will call 1 raise instantly.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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6high
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 136
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You should 3bet the turn.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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God, what a massive bump.
After re-reading this, I don't think whether we raise on the button here matters much beyond personal preference. We do get a few more bets in the pot, but we oft set ourselves up for some difficult, highly marginal postflop play into a large field.
Fnord said, "what about when 337 flops". I say, "youre beat, almost every time at B&M. Fuckers love their 73 soooted"
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