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How sick is this?

  
 
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Kijjo
Old 10-10-2008, 07:28 AM     Post subject: How sick is this? #1 (permalink)  
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Kijjo
Alright, the read on this guy is that he plays alot of junk hands and alot of the other players are just folding to him. We are 6 players at this point. Resist the urge to check the results until you've decided if I played this poorly.

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8, 7
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls

Flop: (4.5 SB) 10, 4, 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls

Turn: (3.25 BB) 8 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls

River: (7.25 BB) 10 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls

Total pot: $0.61 (15.25 BB) | Rake: $0.03

Results in white below:
BB had 5, 8 (full house, eights over tens).
Hero had 8, 7 (full house, eights over tens).
Outcome: BB won $0.29, Hero won $0.29

I only bet the flop because of position and since this guy hadn't shown any trickery, I was wary about raising the turn cause he still could have the flush, but decided to anyways. If the river comes anything but another 8 or the T I'm probably just check/calling.
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DrivingDog
Old 10-10-2008, 07:55 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Raising the turn is good because you are probably ahead.

Raising the river is bad because you are often behind and if you are you will get 3bet. Why else would he lead out unless he has a Ten?

Capping the river is molton spew.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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asdpikas
Old 10-10-2008, 10:26 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivingDog
Raising the turn is good because you are probably ahead.

Raising the river is bad because you are often behind and if you are you will get 3bet. Why else would he lead out unless he has a Ten?

Capping the river is molton spew.
+1
even if he's bluffin on the river, not much use in raising (he'll fold)
if he has the ten he'll 3bet with the winner hand
in a rare scenario like this one i'll think your read was he is a maniac?
even maniacs slow down on the river if they got nothing
You were lucky lookin at the results, that he didnt have the T
But look for that player and play a lot against him!

Note: 87o open raise in CO is kinda loose but playable
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Chopper
Old 10-10-2008, 02:29 PM #4 (permalink)  
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dog and asd are better players than i am, but they dont play down here, either. which is not to say i am right....just that our opinions may differ because of what i see people overplay and call down with on a regular basis.

no matter your read, 78o is not playable in this spot. and, 78s may be a limp if its not HU. if players are folding to him, it sounds like he is aggressive, so will be pressuring you post flop...meaning you need to hit this flop because you have no showdown value. in other words, fold this preflop.

as played, the cbet on the flop is fine, but when he calls, you may want to evaluate what he could hold....which is about anything.

turn seemingly is your lucky card and the river dbl pairs the board. at this level, you should be doing what you are doing...trying to cap all streets.

flushes will overplay there hands. you did fine by me, except you shouldnt have been in the hand to begin with.

you also better be able to lay those trips down when the river isnt a T, but a 4th club instead. and, i mean c/f.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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asdpikas
Old 10-10-2008, 05:17 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Chopper may be right here, stakes and table conditions are reads in themselves.
but a good recomendation, REALLY, is to take a note on that player in case you see him again.
Something like:
overplays his hands, capped bottom FH when top card paired, after i 3bet

This will be useful to have, and mostly, the habit of taking notes will earn you a lot of money in the long run.
This is something i'm starting to appreciate now, and i wish i had a lot more notes on all villains.
"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.
 
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Chopper
Old 10-10-2008, 06:27 PM #6 (permalink)  
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lol. starting at .02/.04 tables, i assume everyone overplays lots of stuff and cant read the board, until proven otherwise...then, i note that. i only note the stuff thats "out of the ordinary" for the level. and, i really try to lighten up my strength requirements to valuebet or call aggression down.

as i move up, i tighten up those requirements. but, it takes playing at the same level for more than 600 hands or whatever youve played. by the time you get to 2500-5000, you will have a good sense of what players take too far.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Old 10-10-2008, 06:43 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I just downloaded the stox/zobags book and they say it's better to just follow a set pre-flop strategy because whatever adjustments you make are most likely going to be wrong. Even if they are correct, the benefit is not that big.

Their table says raise 87s+, QTo+, 22+ from CO... but add hands if the blinds are really tight you can add more like 98o and 65s
Notice how OP actually made the incorrect adjustment... you're supposed to steal LESS from loose players
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Chopper
Old 10-10-2008, 08:41 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
I just downloaded the stox/zobags book and they say it's better to just follow a set pre-flop strategy because whatever adjustments you make are most likely going to be wrong. Even if they are correct, the benefit is not that big.

Their table says raise 87s+, QTo+, 22+ from CO... but add hands if the blinds are really tight you can add more like 98o and 65s
Notice how OP actually made the incorrect adjustment... you're supposed to steal LESS from loose players
right, but remember that raising by some of their standards require a bit of post flop play to profit from the bottom of their range, imo.

therefore, i adjust their range by cutting out some of the hands. basically, i open 6max games from one seat farther away from the btn. therefore, if i make an adjustment, its tighter.....where i can rely a bit more on my card strength until i can make up for it with post flop play.

it seems to work, for me, but i really want to start adding some of those hands. i just cant gain confidence that A7s/K9s or A9o is good utg against the stations i play against...yet.

actually, that gave me an idea....
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Kijjo
Old 10-11-2008, 06:18 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Kijjo
Guys I appreciate the comments. This was a much looser hand than I usually play, both starting hand and betting-wise, I wanted to see what some veterans would have to say. I'll post more hands soon.
Donk Skills:
#1 The bluff call
#2 The Drawing-Dead Value Bet
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