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Nehmer
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04-01-2005, 03:21 PM
Post subject: How should I play this hand?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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UTG is a TA that I see online a lot. Not the greatest player, but definately not a moron. I've never seen UTG+2 before.
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K , A .
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, 7 folds, UTG calls.
Flop: (10.33 SB) Q, 9 , A (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, UTG raises, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.
Turn: (8.16 BB) 3 (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.
River: (11.16 BB) 2 (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 folds.
Final Pot: 13.16 BB
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Strung
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 209
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I probably would of played it the same way. You have TPTK, but you said you have a read on this guy so maybe he has 2 pair which is why I would go to call-down mode after turn card. I really doubt he has AA. If another club would of hit on the turn would a re-raise be acceptable (asking the vets here)?
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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You have to find out what he's holding. Is he the type of guy that knows to raise for a free drawing card? The flop round of betting is the "information round". I 3-bet him here to find out just how strong he thinks he is. If he just calls your bet, then he most likely doesn't have 2-pair, and you just punished him for trying to buy a free draw card off you. Now bet out on the turn and behold his weakness. After that run through the neighborhood screaming how great you are at poker.
If he caps you on the flop, then be cautious for the rest of the hand. If he was drawing, then he just bought himself a draw didn't he? Hats off. Most likely a cap means two-pair. Overall, I think you may have played this hand too passively for my taste, though there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way you played it. It's just a matter of style.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Tripps7
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 130
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I three bet the flop to try and get UTG+2 out and UTG to define his hand. No cap, I bet/call the turn/river. If UTG caps I am in check/call mode. Either way I am seeing a showdown unless UTG+2 gets aggro or some really scary cards hit on the turn and river.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Exactly Tripps, not enough people exploit the information round for what it's worth and in the process punish draws. Don't go into call down mode too soon. You have TPTK, so the flop is not the time to do so here.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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3-bet the flop and lead the turn... or if you're going to play it that way then pop the river.
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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I think in this situation, I don't really need to 3-bet the flop to find out that he is not on a draw(unless maybe an inside straight). The AKQ of clubs are gone, so if he's on a flush draw, he has TJs or worse, which I don't foresee this guy raising with UTG preflop. If he's raising the flop for a free card to an inside straight, that's fine with me. He did have AQ and won the hand. The thing that really makes this hand tough is that he might play AK/AQ/AJ/maybe ATs all exactly the same way, so maybe I should raise the flop just to get UTG+2 out.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
3-bet the flop and lead the turn... or if you're going to play it that way then pop the river.
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I agree, I would have played it a little harder on the flop and the turn, if the player knows to bet out on the draw then by you slowing down here you give him an extra thought or possibility that you will muck your hand even if the draw doesn't get there... IMO I think Fnord has the right idea for this hand...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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Room
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 197
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Fnord, I think it looks like Hero has position on the preflop C/R, so 3betting sets you up for a cap and you can't lead.
This hand just sucks for you. With an aggressive player in front of you, its hard to know where you stand. Getting to the showdown cheaply may not be easy. If you consider him a decent, thinking opponent, hes putting you on a high PP, or AK, AQ (since you 3 bet him preflop). That being said if he holds something like AJ, AT he probably isnt going to pay off a 3 bet much further than the flop. If he holds AQ he will certainly cap you and lead. True, he's going to lose 1 extra BB when you hold AA and QQ (or 99 if he puts you on that as a 3betting hand). However, when hes ahead, youre going to be forced pay him off. If you want to see a showdown cheaply, your line looks good.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
I think in this situation, I don't really need to 3-bet the flop to find out that he is not on a draw(unless maybe an inside straight). The AKQ of clubs are gone, so if he's on a flush draw, he has TJs or worse, which I don't foresee this guy raising with UTG preflop. If he's raising the flop for a free card to an inside straight, that's fine with me. He did have AQ and won the hand. The thing that really makes this hand tough is that he might play AK/AQ/AJ/maybe ATs all exactly the same way, so maybe I should raise the flop just to get UTG+2 out.
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I think you read this hand and your opponent very well given the result. You knew the guy enough to know he had two pair with your board read. I compliment you on some great poker. I would like to add something however. You made a great read. If you had 3-bet the flop, and he capped, you could have saved more money when your original read was reinforced by the cap. You could have just folded right there. I submit that you weren't sure enough to break off, and instead got tugged along for two more big bets.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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