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Lance
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01-30-2008, 08:18 PM
Post subject: How to play middle pairs preflop?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 210
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preflop action: UTG raises, others fold, CO calls, me with 88 on the button....
Is it profitable in the long run if i call?
Where is the borderline when i can call or have to fold ?
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kmslogic
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 1
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You are probably going to be in a tough spot on the flop with 88. Normally I'd say raise or fold on the button here, but a better play may be to call as you suggested--you'll usually get the BB in by calling and if you're luck the SB will join as well. At this point you're looking to flop a set or fold. If you raise then you'll be 3 handed and may have to play the flop aggressively since there's a decent chance your two opponents have big-ace style hands.
If you are pretty sure the SB and BB will call then you can call here with any pocket pair. If there's doubt then 88 is probably right on the borderline (fold 77, call 88).
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arborman
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
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Definitely don't raise. If SB and/or BB are likely to call then it is worth a call for the set value (and the small percentage of other flops that might help you). If you do hit a set and it's a drawy board you want the preflop raiser to bet again so you can raise for value and to chase out draws (or make them incorrectly call).
If you were in middle position it would probably be a fold.
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showboatlou
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fold
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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common advice is to look for 5:1 w/ <TT, from what i've read.
calling two cold is 3:1 and the button and blinds still act. i say fine, if you can count on 2 of the other 3 to come along. if not, i think its best to fold. you just cant get paid enough in a limit game w/ your set. you need to make about 30+ bb's (2 bb's to call times the 15X to recover from all the times you miss the flop) to make this worth it....yes?
w/ a hand like 88, you are solely set-hunting in a raised pot. you know with the raiser, he "should" have something rather strong (some paint or an overpair to yours). the other callers are coming along with a variety of stuff, but the more come along, the more paint should be present. therefore, any overcard on the flop likely hit someone and gave them a better hand. of course, this brings in a windfall if you connect, too, and hold up. i just dont think the good outweighs the bad here.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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I wouldn't say you're only set-hunting. There is still some pair value, especially on a board with all low cards.
Remember that if you make a straight, the chances of your opponent having the same or better straight are worse because you already took away one of the cards.
That said, I would fold in the type of games that I play. SSH says there should be 2 callers before you (3 people total in the pot) if you're in late position. That's the recommendation for tight tables. If you're at a loose table, then it recommends to call. I think that's the decision that hinges on the kind of people you play. BTW, 77 plays the same
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MTTGuy
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: new york
Posts: 11
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