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How to play against high and low VP$IP players

  
 
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Shark Bait
Old 07-22-2005, 06:03 PM     Post subject: How to play against high and low VP$IP players #1 (permalink)  
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I've been going through my PT database and I've found some players that have a very high VP$IP, like 80%. What exactly does this mean to me? How do I play a hand against them? Does this mean these players are likely to call a lot of bets, but then ultimately fold?

I've also seen a few players with low VP$IP, like less than 10%. What do I do against these players?

I remember a hand specifically with a player that had a 8% VP$IP:

Ultimate Bet 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, K.
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, UTG caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 2, 2, 9 (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) T (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.70 BB

Results in white below:
No showdown. UTG wins 8.60 BB.

Firstly, in general, did I play this right? And secondly, Did I play this right against someone who has a VP$IP of 8%? Should I believe their bets more readily than someone with a high VP$IP?
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pokerfanatic
Old 07-22-2005, 06:54 PM #2 (permalink)  
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80% over how many hands SHIT... and what's there handles?

80% VP$IP means they play like complete piss and love to draw at you...

If an 10% or less VP$IP is betting or raising get your ass out of the hand quickly without a very very strong holding... these guys don't play anything but group1 and maybe group2 hands, group2 in LP hardly ever will you see that tight a player betting and raising group2 EP much and they will fold a lot of Group3 hands in all positions... I mean shit they only play 10% of the hands they are dealt this has to only be group1/2 hands...

80% VP$IP well they love action and will make you a lot of money I like getting 1 of those guys just to my right and like 3 or 4 tight players to my left... I’ll raise a ton of hands to isolate the donks...

This is just my opinion others might say differently…
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gutshot
Old 07-22-2005, 07:08 PM #3 (permalink)  
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If I see a high vp$ip player, I like to have immediate position on them so I can raise and isolate and play tons of HU pots with them.

Low vp$ip (10% and less)players I generally want to my left so I can buy button and steal blinds from them and not worry about them defending. It's easy to get away if they are 3-betting preflop because they likely have a hand.
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Shark Bait
Old 07-22-2005, 07:15 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic01
80% over how many hands SHIT... and what's there handles?

80% VP$IP means they play like complete piss and love to draw at you...
I'm playing very low limits so it's not that uncommon. And no, I don't have 12,000 hands on these players, but I don't think it matters.

So what is the strategy against these high VP$IP players? Be even more agressive than usual? Or are they the type that will call down to the river? I guess I'm asking because you can be aggressive with a good hand obviously, but what about a mediocre hand or a missed hand (like AKo...)

Thanks for the clarification though.
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gutshot
Old 07-22-2005, 07:29 PM #5 (permalink)  
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How many hands they play is only half the equation. I play a 80% limper with a .30 agg WAY different than I would a player who plays 80% preflop but is also raising 35% or 50% of his hands preflop.

Granted, I still want position on these guys all day. If a Laggy Maniac comes in for a raise, I'm gonna open my range up and 3-bet to isolate him. My unimproved high card hands play much better against only him and I don't want to play a 4 way pot on the flop. If it's a passive player, I still try to raise to isolate and then just value bet the hell outta the guy post flop.

Basically, you want to isolate and play more HU pots with them. If you are sitting in a good seat where this is possible, you can open up your range of raising hands and get a little crazy pre and post flop.
-jay

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Xanadu
Old 07-22-2005, 09:08 PM #6 (permalink)  
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If a 10% VPIP raises preflop, AK is not good enough for a reraise ... call and if you don't hit the flop, fold.

As far as 80% goes, these are the fish of the fish ... you should know how to beat them ... value bet any second pair or better.
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Shark Bait
Old 07-23-2005, 12:18 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Not really what I'm talking about here, but this is what I mean when I say it's not uncommon.

This guy had a 92% VP$IP

It's nice having the nuts and bets before you.

Ultimate Bet 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, K. CO posts a blind of $0.05.
1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) T, J, Q (5 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG+2 3-bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.70 BB) 3 (5 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 3-bets, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero caps, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (23.70 BB) A (4 players)
UTG+2 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 3-bets, MP2 folds, Hero caps, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 32.70 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Ad Kh (straight, ace high).
UTG doesn't show.
UTG+2 has Qh 3d (two pair, queens and threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 32.70 BB.
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elipsesjeff
Old 07-23-2005, 05:53 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gutshot
How many hands they play is only half the equation. I play a 80% limper with a .30 agg WAY different than I would a player who plays 80% preflop but is also raising 35% or 50% of his hands preflop.

Granted, I still want position on these guys all day. If a Laggy Maniac comes in for a raise, I'm gonna open my range up and 3-bet to isolate him. My unimproved high card hands play much better against only him and I don't want to play a 4 way pot on the flop. If it's a passive player, I still try to raise to isolate and then just value bet the hell outta the guy post flop.

Basically, you want to isolate and play more HU pots with them. If you are sitting in a good seat where this is possible, you can open up your range of raising hands and get a little crazy pre and post flop.
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Demiparadigm
Old 07-27-2005, 06:06 AM #9 (permalink)  
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VP$IP is only part of the puzzle. You need to know how these people play post flop also.
You should look at VP$IP, PFR%, Af, and WtSD% to get a good idea of the range of hands you may be up against.
Af and WtSD% are the most important in deciding whether to continue wit ha weak hand post-flop.
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Shark Bait
Old 07-27-2005, 09:37 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
VP$IP is only part of the puzzle. You need to know how these people play post flop also.
You should look at VP$IP, PFR%, Af, and WtSD% to get a good idea of the range of hands you may be up against.
Af and WtSD% are the most important in deciding whether to continue wit ha weak hand post-flop.
I've been considering what pieces of information I think is the most important when looking at a player and I think the top 3 are (in order)

VP$IP
agression factor
preflop raise

And here's my explanation for them. VP$IP because you can usually figure out how good of a player this person is just by this number alone. Some people just have ridiculous stats. Agression factor is also important because I've played with players who have a VP$IP of 60% or higher, but they will check/call all day, even with aces or kings. Also some people tend to be VERY aggressive, but you'll usually notice this without the stat. Preflop raise is also important because you want to know what you might be up against when there's a preflop raise before you. Some players have PFR of 20%. I know not to give their raise much respect. I've also seen players with PFR of 1% or less and when I see them raise, I'm getting out. Another good thing from the PFR stat is to know this about the players after you. Many times you want to just limp in and not face a raise after you. If the remaining players after you have PFR of around 2%, you don't have much to worry about limping in. However, I wouldn't even think of trying to limp in before someone with a 20% PFR.

Well...that's all I have to say about that.
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