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|~|ypermegachi
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10-26-2004, 02:48 PM
Post subject: how not to play a monster
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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now this doesn't come up often, and you'll win anyways, so really over the long run this isn't a bad mistake. it's just playing all the marginal hands wrong (which come up a lot) that will make you losing player. but i thought i'd post my mistake here.
i get dealth AKo UTG. i bet. get 3 callers, 4th one raises, SB calls, BB folds, everyone else calls.
flop comes JKK rainbow. WOW i just got the nut hand, the only hands that remotely have a chance is JJ drawing to a 4th J, AA drawing to another A, or straights. and against all of those i got redraws to a fullhouse to kick them in the balls back. WOW.
now comes the mistake. i bet after the SB checked. once i clicked the bet button i was like CRAP!!! nooooo!!!! to my dismay, 3 of them folded. the preflop raiser reraised me, everyone else folds. i screwed myself out of a few callers. what i should have done is checked, and let the preflop raiser bet out again, so i can call, and hopefully all those players will call on crappy draws.
anywho, once the turn came i checked hoping he would bet into me so i could call. he took the free card. river i wasn't so nice and i bet, which he called. he had a pair of jacks with A kicker.
13BB pot, so it wasn't too bad. but if i made the more profitable play i mighta been able to squeeze a 15BB or more pot.
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Ikantski
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7
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JJ and KJ both have your nut hand beat and drawing pretty slim.
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jmrogers7
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,112
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Just being nit-picky but you did not have the nut hand after the flop. At this point your are beaten by KJ or JJ. The preflop betting with the 4th guy raising could have been a worrisome although unlikely indication of JJ(altho someone holding KJ would probably be limping). Especially since he re-raised you post-flop.
I only mention this because it is important to know where you stand and thinking that you held the nut hand at that point could have potentially been dangerous. You need to know what hands could beat you at any point in the hand.
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"The urge to gamble is so universal and it's practice is so pleasurable, that I assume it must be evil." - Heywood Broun
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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This post confuses me....
What was the game/stakes?
Table texture?
Reads?
Did you raise pre-flop? If you limped, then why not 3-bet pre-flop with such a large field?
Per post-flop, I think betting into the 3 potential callers hoping the PFR raises everyone isn't a bad play. Check/raising is a worse play as it will only possibly trap the SB, but will face the rest of the field with 2sb cold.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ikantski
JJ and KJ both have your nut hand beat and drawing pretty slim.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmrogers7
Just being nit-picky but you did not have the nut hand after the flop. At this point your are beaten by KJ or JJ.
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don't i feel like a jackass now...
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
This post confuses me....
What was the game/stakes?
Table texture?
Reads?
Did you raise pre-flop? If you limped, then why not 3-bet pre-flop with such a large field?
Per post-flop, I think betting into the 3 potential callers hoping the PFR raises everyone isn't a bad play. Check/raising is a worse play as it will only possibly trap the SB, but will face the rest of the field with 3 cold.
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0.5/1 stakes
this was my 3rd hand dealt, so no table image or reads whatsoever
i raised (well technically the term is bet) first. then the 3 callers, and then the raiser 3-bet back at me. AK wasn't suited so it wasn't worth capping preflop.
actually i wasn't going to a check raise. i was hoping everyone would overcall. but me betting achieved the same results as it would if i check raised since everyone woulda checked to the raiser anyways.
EDIT: i see how you're confused, i just realized you can't "bet" preflop, it's either call or raise. so yeah i raised first. and got reraised after 3 callers.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
0.5/1 stakes
this was my 3rd hand dealt, so no table image
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First laugh of the day. It's .5/1, table image is so unimportant...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
or reads whatsoever
i raised (well technically the term is bet) first. then the 3 callers, and then the raiser 3-bet back at me. AK wasn't suited so it wasn't worth capping preflop.
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The blinds are the bet you raised.... or whatever...
You're getting 4:1 on your money and probably ~2 of the cold callers have hands you dominate. Cap this everytime.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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haha kinda embarrasing to post this, but i never even bothered to learn all the rules and terms for the 1st month i played. didn't think much about position, or how the order of betting changes on the flop, or minimum bets go up during the turn. and despite not knowing any of these and letting the poker software tell me what i can or cannot do, i was still a winning player. mainly because i didn't play anything except AA, KK, AK, AQ, QQ hehehe.
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ChezJ
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10-26-2004, 04:45 PM
Post subject: another nitpick
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#9 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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Quote:
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...the only hands that remotely have a chance is JJ drawing to a 4th J, AA drawing to another A, or straights. and against all of those i got redraws to a fullhouse to kick them in the balls back.
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as others pointed out, JJ would not be drawing, it would have you beat.
also, AA would beat you if an ace fell. your kings full of aces would lose to aces full of kings.
it's not clear what happened after the LP guy re-raised you. did you call or re-raise?
clearly your check on the turn was a mistake after you led out the betting from EP.
ChezJ
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|~|ypermegachi
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10-26-2004, 05:05 PM
Post subject: Re: another nitpick
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#10 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
it's not clear what happened after the LP guy re-raised you. did you call or re-raise?
clearly your check on the turn was a mistake after you led out the betting from EP.
ChezJ
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i just called his preflop raise. i would only cap preflop with AKs.
as for the turn, i was hoping for a check-raise to get an extra bet out of him. why do you think it was a mistake to check to him?
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Fnord
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10-26-2004, 05:11 PM
Post subject: Re: another nitpick
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#11 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
i just called his preflop raise. i would only cap preflop with AKs.
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AKo is a edge hand against your opponent's range of hands here unless you give the 3-bet credit for AA/KK. Cap it every time. Failure to push any edge is leaving money on the table.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
as for the turn, i was hoping for a check-raise to get an extra bet out of him. why do you think it was a mistake to check to him?
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Because you had no expectation that a passive .5/1 player would bet often enough in that spot for the check/raise to be profitable.
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jmrogers7A
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kensington Square
Posts: 8
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmrogers7
Just being nit-picky but you did not have the nut hand after the flop. At this point your are beaten by KJ or JJ. The preflop betting with the 4th guy raising could have been a worrisome although unlikely indication of JJ(altho someone holding KJ would probably be limping). Especially since he re-raised you post-flop.
I only mention this because it is important to know where you stand and thinking that you held the nut hand at that point could have potentially been dangerous. You need to know what hands could beat you at any point in the hand.
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Cheers mate. Youre not the first fella I found online to share me wonderful moniker. (James, I assume?)
After reading your posts you seem to be a bit more cocksure than I, but it takes all kinds, you know?
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ChezJ
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10-27-2004, 12:22 AM
Post subject: Re: another nitpick
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#13 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
it's not clear what happened after the LP guy re-raised you. did you call or re-raise?
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i just called his preflop raise. i would only cap preflop with AKs.
as for the turn, i was hoping for a check-raise to get an extra bet out of him. why do you think it was a mistake to check to him? |
i was asking about the flop. you bet, he raised, then what did you do, re-raise or call?
either way, my point was that you showed so much aggression up front that your sudden check on the turn could only be interpreted by your opponent as a check-raise attempt. if you were trying to induce him to contribute more money, you probably would have been better off fast-betting and hoping he'd be tilting so bad he'd raise you again.
ChezJ
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|~|ypermegachi
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10-27-2004, 01:30 AM
Post subject: Re: another nitpick
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#14 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
i was asking about the flop. you bet, he raised, then what did you do, re-raise or call?
either way, my point was that you showed so much aggression up front that your sudden check on the turn could only be interpreted by your opponent as a check-raise attempt. if you were trying to induce him to contribute more money, you probably would have been better off fast-betting and hoping he'd be tilting so bad he'd raise you again.
ChezJ
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i just called his raise on the flop. i didn't show too much aggression. i raised the blinds, and bet the flop. not totally aggressive there, he raised me both preflop and on the flop, so he's the aggressor. i was surprised he didn't bet the turn.
and for the curious, the turn and river cards were both 3s, giving me a full house kings full
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