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LawDude

10-07-2009, 05:48 AM Post subject: how not to play kings

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 940

I won this hand because the villain fouled it up terribly. I doubt villain had a HUD but if he did he would see something like 19/11/2.0, and if he's watching my play he probably sees pretty standard TAG poker.

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7

, 7

1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls

Flop: (8.4 SB) 5

, Q

(4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, BB calls, 2 folds

Turn: (6.7 BB) 2

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls

River: (8.7 BB) 9

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $4.35 (8.7 BB) | Rake: $0.20

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asdpikas

10-07-2009, 10:08 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 1,056

given stakes, pf cold call seems ok, but i generally like 3bet.
post flop is good, and i like the turn bet a lot, altho I would seriously consider checking there.

"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.

Chopper

10-07-2009, 02:23 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

i actually think the cold call is pretty bad. i know why you do it (because limper and prolly a loose player behind plus blinds gets you 5:1), but i think 77 is a hair too weak. so, i like a fold here.

it is far too weak to 3bet since you arent getting the raiser to fold AND a blind will likely jump in. and, god knows this could still go 4 handed. do you want to be 3 handed or 4 handed with 77 in a pot you cant get anyone to fold on the flop?

post flop is great. i dont think you can check behind the turn. its a bit of a scare card, along with the Q, and may get other mid pairs to fold buying you more equity. river sucks, easy check behind.

i just wouldnt have been here in the first place. i consider it a rather unprofitable spot to get involved with.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

KoRnholio

10-07-2009, 06:41 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 2,165

KoRnholio will become famous soon enough

I'd lean more towards a 3bet preflop as well. I don't think there's enough players left behind us that will be able to cold call along to make it multiway- so we may as well try to get it heads up in position.

Post flop play is good on all streets IMO.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

asdpikas

10-07-2009, 06:55 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 1,056

sorry, i thought this was 6max, given that its FR and its EP players in... call or fold, tending to fold

"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.

BennyLaRue

10-07-2009, 07:03 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2007

Posts: 646

BennyLaRue is a glorious beacon of light

This is where I glance at the table stats to decide what to do. Loose-table...cold-call for set value, anticipating additional callers. Tight-table...pop it pre and try to isolate. Maniacal table...pop it pre for set value. You can really play 77 many ways; the plan for this particular hand is dependent on opponents.

Chopper

10-07-2009, 10:53 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by BennyLaRue

will you give me a touch more scratch (detail) on this one.....loose table? i doubt we have enough cold-callers behind to generate 5:1 for set value. if we dont get that, we need to be sure they will carry what they hit too far, dont we?

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

BennyLaRue

10-08-2009, 01:00 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2007

Posts: 646

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

i doubt we have enough cold-callers behind to generate 5:1 for set value.

Without looking at the players still to act, how can you doubt it?

By looking at the table stats, I mean how the players still to act generally play, potentially anticipating just how multi-way a mult-way pot will be. Let's take the OP...holding 77 in MP1, if I see a 44/13 in the CO, a 35/7 on the button and a BB who generally calls with ATC out of the blinds, I can be pretty sure I'll be getting 5:1 and probably more on my cold-call. If it's a rock garden still to act, cold-calling is terrible and it's more of a raise or fold sitation.

miserialol

10-09-2009, 09:10 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

Quote:

Originally Posted by BennyLaRue

Ya thats what i think too..

Chopper

10-10-2009, 01:44 AM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

imo, the raise comes in a little too late, and we are a little too close to the button to be the first one to cold call here. we only have CO and BTN plus the blinds. if SB folds, we are going to have a little trouble getting the necessary odds.

if we do get 4:1, fine, but we technically need someone or two to overplay their hand IF we hit our set to pay it off.

like you said, benny, with a look at the players, we can better anticipate the right move. however, we werent given that info......so i tend to play mid pps a little more straight up until either the HUD catches up or i notice a lot of mutliway pots w/ my own eyes. 77 is just a little too weak. 99, sure, go for it. 99 holds up a bit better UI.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

arborman

10-11-2009, 06:43 AM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 300

It may be a leak, but I generally call almost any pp if there are two people already committed to the pot. Those odds give SB and BB fair odds to call, and I don't even really mind a 3bet from behind me. I love a multiway capped pot with a low pp, because that set is golden when it hits, and I can usually let everyone else do the betting for me (at least until the turn or river c/r).

I don't much like 3 betting with a hand like 77, as I will have to call a cap, and half the deck will make me uncomfortable on the flop. 99+ and I am much happier. Seriously, how often do you see preflop limpers folding to a 3bet at these stakes?

Implied odds on a set, in a multiway limit hand, are just too good to be ducking for cover preflop. It's very easy for me to fold a missed flop, and very easy to make good decisions with a set when it hits.

For a long time I was folding pp too easily and it cost me a lot of fat pots that I should not have been missing. Now I probably play them a little too often, but I think it is still a more profitable approach.

In the OP hand he might as well have flipped over his ace-(KJT) when he just called your raise on the flop.

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