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meeloche
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06-17-2008, 05:10 AM
Post subject: how much varience in PLO?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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Looking to probably start playing PLO eventually and I am just wondering what kind of variance to expect. Similar to say 6max holdem cash or HU holdem cash or less?
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Depends how much you like 60/40's for stacks at your level. Short of freerolling a ton (which doesn't happen overly frequently) against competent players you're rarely getting the money in as much more than a 3/2 favorite. However, since ssplo players play so horribly it's probably profitable. I guarantee the 10 or 25PLO crowd is generally worse than the 10 or 25NLHE crowd. PLO is a stressful game because there's a lot more to think about, hand selection is a lot more important than most people think it is, because you want to play hands that give you the opportunity to freeroll ( e.g JhTh9d8d is way way way better than JdTc9s8d). All in all I'd say if 15-25 buyins is the accepted standard for NLHE, the standard for Omaha is probably 35-45 buyins, just due to the fact that the variance is relatively (if not significantly) higher than 6max. Also tilt is magnified in PLO because at least when you're tilting in Hold 'Em you tend to have more equity than when you tilt in PLO.
I'd say, in terms of variance, HU > PLO > 6max NL. Also, do you plan on playing FR or 6max PLO? I prefer 6max myself because you get to play in position way more often as the preflop aggressor.
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Sheetah
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 278
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Agree with everything overflow said.
Just so you get the idea of how it goes we'll take standard deviation as a measure of 'swinginess' - these are typical (just averages, lags have higher SD than nits) SD numbers that players report:
NLHE 6max: ~ 38BB
NLHE HU: (different players report different numbers but the avg seems to be) ~ 100BB
PLO 6max: ~ 50+BB (not sure about FR)
Warning: Don't let the numbers deceive you! While at first glance it looks like PLO is not really that bad compared to NLHE HU it's important to know that swings are defined with two important parameters:
1) aforementioned SD (higher SD = higher swings)
2) win rate ( higher WR = lower swings)
and 2) is the catch. HU players are capable of having awesome win rates and 10BB at lower limits is quite possible. On the other side PLO win rates are pretty similar to 6max ones. So it's not like PLO variance is slightly worse than NLHE 6max, I'd say it's much closer to NLHE HU.
As for bankroll 40BI is considered bare minimum. If you do want to give it a shot get yourself ready for hell of a roller coaster. And I hope you control tilt well.
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meeloche
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,131
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I'd probably be playing 6 max since thats what I play in NLH. I probably won't be playing it very much for a couple of months till I have more time. From Holdem I'd be comfortably rolled for 200nl PLO but wouldn't consider starting that high. Hows 100PLO for an entry point? Or 50PLO?
I would say that I am a decent hand reader and I get position and aggressiveness really well from NLH however my math skills and equity calculations are probably lacking of a PLO reg.
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pankfish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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I play plo50 and can't find a table without at least 2-3 guys with vpips> 60 on stars. variance is a bitch though.
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<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
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pankfish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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oh yeah, watch the vanessa selbst (sp) and whitelime series on deucescracked.com. Then watch mad potters cuz they are funny.
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<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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in my expert opinion (less than 2k hands) PLO is swingy as fuck because its really really really easy to make really really good non-nut hands.
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pankfish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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You just need to change your definition of "really really good hands" in plo.
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<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
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