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How effective is PLAY MONEY practice?

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flopmonkey

11-22-2008, 01:44 PM Post subject: How effective is PLAY MONEY practice?

#1 (permalink)

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Lots of articles suggests that to make money in low limit, you should play in Loose tables. In most play money tables, they are VERY loose, seeing the river almost 100% of the time.

Is it safe to conclude, that if you consistently win at the play money tables, being a tight player, that you can do pretty well at the real money tables, (low stakes)?

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asdpikas

11-22-2008, 04:02 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Posts: 1,056

i wouldn't conclude as much.
even though the fish are fish, when they play for real money, they play a tiny bit better.
Still, if we are talking LHE, it wont hurt as much to play those games as it would NL.

"could I take out every woman and child in a border town?"
For the right to be governed, waste them without mercy.
When you've decided. Meet me at the airport.

mrhappy333

11-22-2008, 08:35 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Hartford, CT

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Play with the play money to learn the game, especialy if its a game you never played before. Ive recently played 7 card stud for play money to see how the betting works, who bets first, what the blinds are, etc.
I would suggest once you learn the basics, Deposit some money, and get rakeback wherever you play. Real money plays much different than play $$

3 3 3 I'm only half evil.

Chopper

11-22-2008, 11:54 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

even a nickel makes a difference.

but, that said, i feel i definitely learned more by playing for "free" first. when i started, i didnt want to lose money until i felt comfortable with a few things:

- what is a strong hand?
- how many hands go all the way? with more than one other player? what hands typically win in those situations?
- what is the best hand on board?
- which hands should i typically raise preflop, and in what situations?
- can i identify the truly idiotic/bad players at a particular table?
- HOW DO I REACT TO LOSING A CINCH HAND?

you can, and i did, read a book or two BEFORE playing, but nothing drives those concepts home like actual playing experience. and, that is what free money games are great for.

if you dont already know the answers to those questions from other poker ventures, you will get a TON out of playing for free money.

if you already know that stuff, you will get substantially less.

take that for what it's worth.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

KoRnholio

11-23-2008, 01:08 AM

#5 (permalink)

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I've played play money a few times in the last year (usually with friends at the table who are broke). If you can find a table that isn't full of raise and jam retards, it can be okay to learn the game and how far to go with hands. If the table turns maniacal just find a new one.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

flopmonkey

11-23-2008, 01:58 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Thanks for the replies.

flopmonkey

11-23-2008, 01:58 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Thanks for the replies.

I am working my way through two books: "Winning Low Limit Holdem" by Lee Jones, and "Internet Texas Holdem" by Matthew Hilger. I am going to read those two about 10 times before I risk any money. Any other book suggestions on limit?

I suspected that when real money is involved, people will play better. I want to be prepared to handle the worst of situations. I figure that even in low limit with very low stakes, like .50/1 or even higher, I will still encounter the retard raisers occasionally, because some people that have lots money will still be playing only for entertainment, not for long term gain or as making a living.

Im doing pretty good so far with play money, so I want to polish and hone my system of play to handle as much as I can. I plan to try the lowest limit tables at first then, eventually move up to 5$/10$ where my bankroll should be ok for that. But on the other hand, I think the lower the limit...the less skill of opponents, so it may be more profitable for me to stay in the really low tables for a while?

Also I find that I win alot more when I have less players at my table. And I do even better heads up. I guess the reason is that I have less players with hands to beat me.

Sheetah

11-24-2008, 09:18 AM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Posts: 278

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopmonkey

I am working my way through two books: "Winning Low Limit Holdem" by Lee Jones, and "Internet Texas Holdem" by Matthew Hilger. I am going to read those two about 10 times before I risk any money. Any other book suggestions on limit?

Not sure about Hilger. As for Lee's WLLH ... meh, not that the book is bad (more like sub-optimal), but the problem is that it'll teach you how to play "weak tight" and given overall risk-adverse tone of your posts (no offense) it might only reinforce you to close yourself into that weak tight shell. And then you'll have hard times relearning what real Tag or Tag/Lag is.

First of all you must decide what area to specialize at: full ring which I don't suggest for various reasons (less money to be made when everyone is so tight, lower number of players compared to 6max, boring etc) or the mainstream game today: 6max (my advice). If the latter and you're fond of reading then up here in the stickies in 'LHE Digest' you have good old Hypermegachi's 6max limit guide which imo is just about PERFECT for the stakes you intend to play: read it 101 times, memorize every word and then go crush those tards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopmonkey

But on the other hand, I think the lower the limit...the less skill of opponents, so it may be more profitable for me to stay in the really low tables for a while?

No! My advice to you is to move up ASAP! The rake is a real killer in small stakes and it is your best interest to reach at least 3/6 as soon as you can. Trust me on this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopmonkey

Also I find that I win alot more when I have less players at my table.

Yes, the lower the players the less of a hand it takes to win the pot. But also blinds 'eat' you faster so the real problem is how to adapt - you can't camp and wait for premium hands i.e. you must lower your standards and play more mediocre hands, also bluff more (since, well it's less likely they have something), which also means variance will go up and you'll have to deal with harder swings (and tilt issues).

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopmonkey

And I do even better heads up.

NO NO NO NO! STAY AWAY FROM HU TABLES!!! The rake at small stakes HU tables is sooooo bad and sooooo huge that many experienced HU specialist are not even sure if it's possible to beat the rake at lower limit HU. The general consesnus is that up to 2/4 (preferably 3/6) it's not worth it ....

unless you are:

and playing against:

flopmonkey

11-24-2008, 09:51 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Thanks for the advice!

Hypermegachi's 6max limit guide looks like a great guide.
I have so much to unlearn

Chopper

11-25-2008, 01:19 AM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

if you want a book, read SSHE (small-stakes hold 'em...sorry, thought it would turn blue) by sklansky/miller. that is literally the bible when playing these low limit games. HEFAP has a short-handed section that will help with 6max, and shorter, stuff. Hyper's guide is pretty phenomenal for 6max, too, though.

sadly, when it comes to SSHE and HEFAP, they will teach a very "abc" almost "weak/tight" style, too. but, at the lower limits "weak/tight" pays very well.

learn the basics first. learn abc poker. learn when to raise to thin and for value AND the differences. learn to call and induce bluffs AND the differences.

then, start to open up and let those dawgs hunt. shifting between fundamentals and "preying on the weak" is what poker is all about. hell, preying on the weak is a fundamental, too. but, there are more important concepts to learn first, imo.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Sheetah

11-25-2008, 10:37 AM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Posts: 278

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

if you want a book, read SSHE (small-stakes hold 'em...sorry, thought it would turn blue) by sklansky/miller. that is literally the bible when playing these low limit games.

Yes, yes, forgot to mention that. SSHE is awesome book primarily because it teaches you essential concepts that are applicable to all forms of holdem. This book is by all means 'a must have'.

Jack Sawyer

11-25-2008, 12:33 PM

#12 (permalink)

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playmoney is great to spew while tilted

otherwise its a waste of time

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Chopper

11-25-2008, 01:22 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

playmoney is great to spew while tilted

otherwise its a waste of time

i will drop to play money when i go on life tilt or when i feel like playing like a total retard.

it can, however, be great "prep" for playing the group of guys i play with once a month. these guys are some of the biggest donks you've ever seen.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

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