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bigspenda73
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08-18-2006, 12:37 AM
Post subject: How does everyone play AKs/AKo OOP
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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I have having a lot of trouble with AKs, everytime I brick a flop I just wanna check it down. Im beginning to wonder its value of raising if I know I'll be first to bet on the next round. Its hard to play these big broadways after the flop being the first to act. I know a lot depends on flop structure and opponents, however, everytime I flop good I feel like a genius and everytime I brick I feel like a dumbass. Anyone have any suggestions on what they like to do here?
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strawman
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08-18-2006, 07:21 PM
Post subject: Re: How does everyone play AKs/AKo OOP
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#2 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 207
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
...a lot depends on flop structure and opponents
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What else is there? Not every flop is going to be paint by numbers in texture and the majority with AKs will not be. The worst thing you can do is start to believe you are making a preflop mistake. If the flop is coordinated I am pretty much done with the hand and if it is uncoordinated I throw out a bet 50% of the time, check/fold about 40% and check/call one bet about 10%.
Well, there is one other thing, yourself. It's not just the bet, it is how your opponents perceive your betting. Your AKs might be worthless on the present hand but how you play it might be very valuable during a later hand. Sometimes it is worth losing a bet on a hand if it can set you up later to win many.
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Shark Bait
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 481
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I used to bet out flop, turn and river on a missed AK. I think that was losing me a lot of money. Now, assuming I was the last to raise preflop, I bet out on the flop, and if I'm just called, I will bet the turn UI about half the time. This depends a lot on a players fold turn %. If it's below 50%, I probably just check/fold.
Another question...suppose you have position, do you go for a free river card after betting the flop?
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<a500lbgorilla> Limit is poker with training wheels!
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arkitekton
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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It's so flop- and opponent-dependent that generalizing is probably counterproductive. If heads up betting is generally right. Against three opponents, often not. Betting into a flop of something like Q83r can be right since it's unlikely your opponents have two overcards. Betting into JT9 with 2 of a suit is clearly wrong. I encourage you to create a database and track each instance of this hand and of AKo. How often do you win when you miss the flop? How often do you miss, bet the flop, and win outright? How often are you raised when you miss the flop and bet, and what happens after that? And so on--break it down and follow it through, and your play in this regard has to improve.
Quote:
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Im beginning to wonder its value of raising if I know I'll be first to bet on the next round.
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just btw, unless you're raising from the blinds how do you know you'll be the first to bet on the next round?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Yea, it was meant as a blind hand, like if it is 3 limped around to me. I saw a similar post on this hand concerning blind play and I was wondering. I know it is a raise for value, but sometimes it wouldnt hurt to just complete the SB with such a monster and add some deception post flop. It's all flop and opponent dependent, I understand that. I just always know when someone has AK at my .25/.5 level game. When they are OOP they donk the flop, think for a second, and then check the turn. My opponents are not observant but as I move up I know they will realize more and more and not let me steal as many pots with AK.
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arkitekton
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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Sure--by all means vary your game a little. You can check on occasion with AKs, though how often do you sit at a table long enough for opponents to have the chance to see you deal with AK out of the blinds more than once? Even counting AKo you'll pick up any AK 32 of 2652 deals. You'll pick up AK in the blinds about 20% of those times or 2.4 times every 1,000 deals--hardly often enough for an opponent to get a read on you. Rather than lower your EV on those hands, you might try the reverse: raise MORE from the blinds. In loose games you often do well raising from the blinds with hands that play well in multiway pots, such as JTs or AJs.
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strawman
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 207
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I know it is a raise for value, but sometimes it wouldnt hurt to just complete the SB with such a monster and add some deception post flop.
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Say 5 people limp and you are in the SB. You already are invested in the pot whether you like it or not but your bonus is looking down at AKs. This is a great time to raise out of the blinds because it is unlikely that your opponents are going to fold to another bet so why wait for the flop to miss them before getting all you can out of this situation. If this many people are entering a flop you can guarantee most are holding garbage and against opponents that are going to volunatarily enter a pot with garbage and follow up by calling a raise, do you really think they are going to pay attention to your decpetiveness?
I think it is better to vary your game not by dumbing down a premium holding but occasionally raising something else that plays well. Even if one or two players are paying attention to you there are still 5 or 6 that aren't. Pay attention to those 5-6 and do everything you can to exploit their play.
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