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littleogre
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11-03-2005, 04:38 AM
Post subject: How do you play tptk after being check raised on the turn?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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The game is limit holdem 1/2 or lower. You have A/k and pair your king on the flop. You bet and get 1 caller. They check the turn you bet and they raise. What do you do ? I know i'm probably behind at this point.
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sykotik489
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 99
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I will be the first to tell you that we need way more information to give you accurate advice, reads, the rest of the board, etc.
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You should never wave at people you don't know, cause what if they don't have a hand. They'll think you're cocky. "Look what I got motherfucker, this thing is useful, I'ma go pick somethin up."
- Mitch Hedberg
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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The board is non threatening. There is no possible flush and a str8 looks unlikely. I will give an example below
you A/k
flop 4/Q/k no possible flush
action they check you bet and they call.
turn 8 still no possible flush or flush draw
action they check you bet they raise.
As far as reads lets say you don't have a real good read on them but you have no reason to believe they are overly aggressive. Should i assume that tptk is no longer any good and only call if i am geting proper odds on a draw? I'm just not sure how to play this. Tptk is strong heads up and looks even better when there is no flush or str8 to be scared of. Yet calling down in this spot seems to be a big post flop leak for me as the usually have 2 pair or a set. That they either just hit or were slow playing from the flop.
If you are wondering about preflop action assume you raised and they just flat called. If you need more info please just ask.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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I'm very sorry but i just noticed that you have a seperate section for limit holdem. Would a mod please be kind enough to move this to the limit holdem section as this question refers to 1/2 limit or lower.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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i would say depending on how loose the villain is either fold right there to their KQ/set or check/call down. from what i remember people in low-limit tend to play suited kings aswell and sometimes suited queens so 2 pair is fairly likely. Also the people who are aware of check-raising are also more likely to be aware of what a decent hand is and are less likely to be check raising you with a single king-weak kicker. I think against most opponents a fold is the correct play but if you are up against someone who is too loose/aggressive then check/call.
I havnt played alot of limit though so i could be very very wrong
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
i would say depending on how loose the villain is either fold right there to their KQ/set or check/call down. from what i remember people in low-limit tend to play suited kings aswell and sometimes suited queens so 2 pair is fairly likely. Also the people who are aware of check-raising are also more likely to be aware of what a decent hand is and are less likely to be check raising you with a single king-weak kicker. I think against most opponents a fold is the correct play but if you are up against someone who is too loose/aggressive then check/call.
I havnt played alot of limit though so i could be very very wrong
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Ty for your reply.
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TalentedTom
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 289
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Im a NL player but my move would be to rereaise them
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Tom.S
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TalentedTom
Im a NL player but my move would be to rereaise them
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Would you fold if they continue to show strength?
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TalentedTom
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 289
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If they reraise me I would call, and call down the river as well. Folding a made AK to 4 bets is not something I would ever consider doing, its possible he has KJ and is trying to define his hand, you have the slight chance of JT + other stuff which i am unable to think of. Your only really worry here i suspect is QK, QQ would have rerasied preflop, K8 and Q8 are possible but very unlikley folding here would be similar to folding kings because you think someone has aces. AK is the 2nd nuts here.
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Tom.S
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Checkways
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11-04-2005, 08:11 AM
Post subject: Re: How do you play tptk after being check raised on the tur
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#10 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 249
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
The game is limit holdem 1/2 or lower. You have A/k and pair your king on the flop. You bet and get 1 caller. They check the turn you bet and they raise. What do you do ? I know i'm probably behind at this point.
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Back when I was playing limit at the casino, this was an easy laydown because the people there are so fishy (uber passive). In limit, a check raise on the turn is basically poker grammar for, "I can beat top pair".
However, online I've noticed that people get CRAZY with their raising on the turn. I've seen people cap it on the turn with TPMK truly believing that they have the best hand. So online, I'd probably call, then check/call the river. I think this usually comes down to reads.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TalentedTom
If they reraise me I would call, and call down the river as well. Folding a made AK to 4 bets is not something I would ever consider doing, its possible he has KJ and is trying to define his hand, you have the slight chance of JT + other stuff which i am unable to think of. Your only really worry here i suspect is QK, QQ would have rerasied preflop, K8 and Q8 are possible but very unlikley folding here would be similar to folding kings because you think someone has aces. AK is the 2nd nuts here.
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QQ is exactly what he had. Why he didn't 3 bet before the flop is beyond me.
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bencathers
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Manhattan & Boston
Posts: 480
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Did you raise pre-flop? That helps in determining if he's making a move since ur a raiser and may have nothing, or if he knows ur aggressive and can make more money on the turn
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Dealer: bencathers has two pair, Aces and Deuces
Dealer: Tbags has two pair, Kings and Jacks
Dealer: Tbags finished the tournament in 256th place
Tbags [observer]: another scumbag gets there on this site lol
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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{moved at the author's request from Hold'em Hand Histories (Ring) by Ultimate George}
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I think I would call, then call the river or bet if checked to.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bencathers
Did you raise pre-flop? That helps in determining if he's making a move since ur a raiser and may have nothing, or if he knows ur aggressive and can make more money on the turn
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I bet preflop and got 2 flat callers. Then after the flop they both checked and i bet again. One player folded and the player that unknown to me had just hit a set flat calls once again. He then check raises me on the turn. I was worried about him having k/q but never would of put him on QQ. His passive preflop play made it very difficult to put him on a hand that big.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Ask Anubis!
...or just play poker. As phrased the question lacks enough details to give a good answer.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Ask Anubis!
...or just play poker. As phrased the question lacks enough details to give a good answer.
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What details are you looking for? I welcome your advice but i don't know what else to tell you about the hand. The only other thing i can add is the table was tight as a whole with a preflop call % or around 40
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
The only other thing i can add is the table was tight as a whole with a preflop call % or around 40
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By online standards, that's a pretty darn good game. Good enough that I might have trouble folding 22 UTG.
Stuff I would consider:
Pot size
Board texture
How loose this particular opponent is (hand range)
How often they raise post-flop. In the games I play, I have very specific numbers on how often people pull shit like this and win showdown. If it's something like 10/10 then I'm more inclined to let this one go.
...or just Ask Anubis!
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
The only other thing i can add is the table was tight as a whole with a preflop call % or around 40
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By online standards, that's a pretty darn good game. Good enough that I might have trouble folding 22 UTG.
Stuff I would consider:
Pot size
Board texture
How loose this particular opponent is (hand range)
How often they raise post-flop. In the games I play, I have very specific numbers on how often people pull shit like this and win showdown. If it's something like 10/10 then I'm more inclined to let this one go.
...or just Ask Anubis! |
If it helps the player with QQ was very tight He never raised a single hand post flop. In all honesty the QQ hand was the only one he saw the show down with. I only have about 30 hands from him in my pt data base.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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I don't see an edit button but in the above post i meant he never raised preflop.
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Kessler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 117
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Why didn't he raise the flop? He was slowplaying. Not everyone shows aggression "when they're supposed to". As much as it's an error, I've seen AA and KK NOT raise preflop, just call along the whole way and kick it up on the river when they feel their hand is still good. Of course they are missing bets, but at some tables, by not showing aggression you are able to milk the pot. At a risk of getting sucked out on of course, but some players are extremely passive.
-Kessler
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If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kessler
Why didn't he raise the flop? He was slowplaying. Not everyone shows aggression "when they're supposed to". As much as it's an error, I've seen AA and KK NOT raise preflop, just call along the whole way and kick it up on the river when they feel their hand is still good. Of course they are missing bets, but at some tables, by not showing aggression you are able to milk the pot. At a risk of getting sucked out on of course, but some players are extremely passive.
-Kessler
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Clearly it worked for him that time but i don't see how being that passive can be correct long term.
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Kessler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 117
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I agree. But it happens, and I have to constantly remind myself that not every poker player is as aggressive as I am.
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If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.
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bencathers
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Manhattan & Boston
Posts: 480
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This is really one of those hands you just have to shrug off. You played it correctly and the QQ guy saw an agressive player who they knew they could get some extra bets by check-raising the turn.
This is how tight/passive players play a set against an aggressive player.
But you seem to be too results oriented here as you are worried about your play. Most top players are going to pay this off or at least check/call the river (it's hard to lay down TPTK after you pre-flop raise on this type of board in a heads up situation)... it happens and its part of variance (where you play the hand correctly, but the other catches their set)
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Dealer: bencathers has two pair, Aces and Deuces
Dealer: Tbags has two pair, Kings and Jacks
Dealer: Tbags finished the tournament in 256th place
Tbags [observer]: another scumbag gets there on this site lol
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Hate
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 322
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Assuming(as someone in this thread did) that KQ or QQ (to which you would be behind) is unlikely because there was no preflop 3bet is WRONG, at least at 1/2 and lower. I see plenty of AA, KK cold callers or just plain limpers so QQ cold called isn't really surprising. Also, if I'd known (as OP mentioned) that villain never raises preflop, I'd have folded the turn faster than you can say "shit, he's got a set/KQ".
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