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How do you play overcards

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zenbitz

10-31-2004, 04:43 PM Post subject: How do you play overcards

#1 (permalink)

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Assume a table of low-limit calling stations, you are dealt AK or KQ in good position, so of course you raise it.

flop is rainbow rags, checked to you. Clearly, bet the flop - turn is another undercard, checked to you - clearly bet the turn, River is another undercard.

At this point, there is probably at least a straight draw on the board - so if you are bet into you have to lay it down. What if there are NO draws, and someone bets? Assume they paired on the river?

Hand below is actually more dangerous than that - flop had a pair of 9s. But no one bet into me, so unless they are slow-playing the set...

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero or villian? is Button with A

, K

. UTG posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero or villian? 3-bets, BB calls, UTG (poster) calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 9

, 2

, 9

(6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero or villian? bets, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 3

(5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero or villian? bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (12.50 BB) J

(4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero or villian? folds, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Results in white below:
SB doesn't show.
UTG+1 has Ac Ks (one pair, nines).
MP1 has As 5c (one pair, nines).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 14.50 BB.

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|~|ypermegachi

10-31-2004, 05:05 PM

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i think you played it fine. they never showed any aggression except for preflop. since they never reraised you on the flop they probably missed the flop as well and are drawing to better hands.

betting the turn and river was good. until they tell you "hey i really have something here" you shouldn't back off.

Eric

11-01-2004, 04:34 AM

#3 (permalink)

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zenbitz, Your avatar is cool looking. What do the words at the bottom mean in English?

nemofromuscl

11-01-2004, 05:04 AM

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Posts: 46

Why do you bet on the flop with overcards if everything misses you and its checked? It seems like to get people out who have nothing isnt a good enough reason, because if you 3 bet before the flop how is a 993 going to hit you? People must know it didnt, but I see people still betting these types of situations all the time. Can someone explain this to me?

|~|ypermegachi

11-01-2004, 05:07 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nemofromuscl

betting again can easily be seen as you're holding a pocket pair, like JJ QQ or better.

also, overcards should be played like weak draws. think of them like a gut shot straight draw. if one of the over cards pairs you on the turn, you have a good chance of having the best hand.

Ragingg

11-01-2004, 02:41 PM

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If I could guess, it'd say "Kill Hitler" or something.... Its obviously a propaganda piece from WWII.

Fnord

11-01-2004, 03:02 PM Post subject: Re: How do you play overcards

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

flop is rainbow rags, checked to you. Clearly, bet the flop - turn is another undercard, checked to you - clearly bet the turn, River is another undercard.

With 4 other players in the hand, I wouldn't bet the turn and instead take my free card. You're not ahead here against this big of a field often enough. At this limit I expect 55-22 and lots of other crap to call down too often for this bet to be profitable.

Freakish hand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

zenbitz

11-01-2004, 03:02 PM

#8 (permalink)

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My WAG is "death to the fascist snake". I will ask my russian friend though.

ChezJ

11-17-2004, 10:16 PM

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Quote:

Why do you bet on the flop with overcards if everything misses you and its checked?

I'll give you an answer based on my cracked understanding of 2+2's SSH book...

If you raised pre-flop and got at least 2 callers, then there are at least 6 bets in the pot. If the flop is uncoordinated and you have two overcards, you have 6 outs to spike top pair.

With 6 outs, you only need 7:1 pot odds to draw. You just need one other person in the pot to make it a breakeven call. But if you know you're going to call a bet anyway, then really you should be the one leading out. If you bet first and get no callers, you win the pot. If you knock anyone out, that's good too.

If you get raised, then you are in trouble... and should probably fold while the pot's still small and the betting is cheap. But technically, you have pot odds to call the raise because the pot's even bigger now. 2+2 says call the raise then fold on the turn if you must, because folding right after you bet projects weakness and invites players to bluff at you.

If you see the turn and it misses you, you pretty much have to check-fold.

Fnord, did I get that right? I can't say I'm an expert at SSH methods because I only read the book two weeks ago and have since lost about $80!!

ChezJ

Fnord

11-17-2004, 11:07 PM

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The basic idea behind betting out here is:

o The pot is too big to fold
o Given that, open betting is almost always better than check/calling.
o It hides your hand
o Once a blue moon your flop bet wins the pot
o With position, the flop bet might buy you a river card.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChezJ

Fnord, did I get that right? I can't say I'm an expert at SSH methods because I only read the book two weeks ago and have since lost about $80!!

At what stakes? Did you use the "loose" or "tight" pre-flop chart?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

ChezJ

11-19-2004, 09:53 PM

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i re-read the chapter in SSH on playing overcards and it turns out that their advice is more conservative than i'd remembered. i must have made some extrapolations that were simply not in the book. this explains some of my recent bad play. well i did say up front that my understanding of the material was cracked.

for example, in the situation i cited above, i now think 2+2 would say the pot is too small to bother fighting over. you might bet your overcards if you are on the button and it's checked to you. but you don't necessarily want to bet it out from EP.

when the pot is huge, then the advice is to be VERY aggressive, even raising your overcards if someone bets, so as to protect your draw.

making the distinction between small and huge pots is a very key factor in deciding how to play overcards.

ChezJ

zenbitz

11-19-2004, 10:36 PM

#12 (permalink)

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I have actually backed off betting overcards unless I have an A, the reason is, I tend to get into trouble when nothing hits, and I like to have that tiebreaking kicker. On the other hand, I think I was betting them without much regard to position or draws... kinda laggy.

Also, I confirmed, my avatar DOES say "Death to the Fascist Snake"

kidpoker22

11-21-2004, 12:08 AM

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I would be reluctant to bet the turn in a spot where it was at least three-handed. I don't know what limits you play or how the players at those limits play, but I would have to assume that at least one player was holding a hand like 88 or TT. Most good players are not going to call 3 bets pre-flop without a made hand or AK, maybe AQ. In that case, the made hands--the middle PP's and such--probably aren't going anywhere unless a real scare card hits. Any scare card is going to hit your hand. I would just check the turn and see what happens on the river. If you get led into then you have to analyze who bet into you, i.e. is it a player who is capable of making a bluff in that spot?, or is it someone trying to make a value bet? Then just look at the pot size. If the pot is laying you 7:1 so I might call a bet on the river just to try and pick off a bluff.

KP22

KP22

zenbitz

11-21-2004, 12:42 AM

#14 (permalink)

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my secret is only playing against crappy players, at least in limit

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