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How do you play high unpaired cards after a ragged flop?

  
 
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Raoni_Poker
Old 04-29-2009, 02:00 AM     Post subject: How do you play high unpaired cards after a ragged flop? #1 (permalink)  
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Raoni_Poker
Hi,

I've noticed something in nano stakes (I'm playing 0.10-0.20) that is affecting the way I play. I see this play very often and I wonder what you think of it.

I think my opponents over value high unpaired cards when they miss the flop. With a hand like KQ, AQ, AK, etc they bet (and sometimes even raise) even if the flop is something like T-6-2 rainbow. I know betting this way is quite good when you're heads up, but I see this frequently in multi-handed flops.

The question is:
How do you play high unpaired cards on the flop?
Do you ever play them against the odds assuming that the first bettor did not have anything? I mean, you have 6 outs to a high pair. Therefore this call would be mathematically incorrect with small pots.
Do you fold to a single bet in this case?

This is a silly question and I am aware its all about reads, odds, etc...
However, I wonder if you too (like me) fold to a single bet in this case, because sometimes I feel bad to do it (assuming that I might have the best hand if someone is bluffing).
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Chopper
Old 04-29-2009, 03:28 AM #2 (permalink)  
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personally, i will mix up what i do. sometimes, i will call along (especially with KQ since an A on the turn will make aces up often). sometimes, i fold. and, with a read of a chronic cbettor, i will raise him.

i dont play much oop, though, but when i do, i mix that up, too.

as for what to look for, i am looking for 8:1 on flops and 6:1 on turns. its likely a spew point for me, but if HU, i am not folding a lot of "wet" boards with Ahi because i see a lot of spewbots. the lower the stakes, though, the more i am inclined to completely chill out, unless i catch a piece of the flop or turn, if the flop checked thru.

however, there is nothing quite like having the reputation of betting/raising a lot of flops and then hitting turns with these "whiffed overs."
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Raoni_Poker
Old 04-29-2009, 12:12 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Raoni_Poker
Nice...
When I feel the guy is c-betting me, I often raise him. However, instead getting a free card on the river (they usually check to you the turn when you raise the flop), I just cant resist to make a bet on the turn and on the river (regardless of the cards, I just want them to quit). Thats a bad strategy, I know...they usually stick there to showdonw and win with low pair or something. In a few times, I've won with Ace high...and in few times the guy quits.

I had a nice hand yesterday with JQo and after T-8-5-7 on the flop and the turn, I had 4 outs to make a straight (10:1 approx) and with a huge pot (lots of people raising) giving me about the same odds (10:1). I decided to call and luckly I hit the 9 on the river. Huge pot...glad I called on the flop (I was probably against high pairs, two pairs or a set). Calling 2BB on the flop was mathematically incorrect, but since they were playing it very aggressive...I assumed the pot would give me odds on the turn.
Got lucky in this one.
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Chopper
Old 04-30-2009, 03:01 AM #4 (permalink)  
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when you think a guy is cbetting, there is nothing wrong with raising him.......if you think he will fold. if you know he wont fold, its pure spew. however, you can call with position and close odds. i say close odds because you may have a chump that will give up to a turn raise. in that case, you call the flop and pop the turn on a scary card, and if called there, you have a free showdown most times.

you need to learn when your hand is strong enough to go for a free turn or a free showdown and play it accordingly. with the free turn, you would raise the flop (where its cheaper to raise) and with the free showdown, you are a bit stronger and can win a showdown if neither of you improve. but, most importantly, you need to know which type of villain you are up against. doing either of these into low stakes stations is a recipe for bankroll burnoff, unless you get very lucky and hit your cards.

calling two on a flop isnt so bad if there are multiple players coming along, too. yes, it generates the pot necessary to peel a card on the turn and, if lucky, slam the door and tilt them. but, it has serious complications when it backfires. in other words, i would do so very rarely regardless of the players on the flop. if the turn also gets raised, you are calling incorrectly, and it can be traced all the way back to the flop cold call. thats 3BB of reckless abandon that will cost a "good" player 100+ hands to recover from. that's just not solid poker to keep putting yourself in such holes.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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