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littleogre
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01-26-2006, 09:33 PM
Post subject: How do you adjust your game for super passive players?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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You know the guys that cold call 2 preflop bets with pocket kings then continue to flat call all the way through the river and never once show an ounce strength. At the same time they play a floped bottom pair exactly the same way They never really grow any gonads unless they flop a set or better. I had a terrible session versus a table full of these guys yesterday in a 6max limit game. Several hands i floped or turnt hands like tptk and tpmk (m=middle kicker on uncordinated and i would have position and they i would check i would bet and they would just call down with 2 pair.
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Mike_Ann
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 61
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Passive player like to see flop and love to chase with draw. to me bet more on the flop if they call then just slow it down unless you have the nut. Never bluff them after the call the flop. 99% they will call your bluff and beat your A high with bottom pair
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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Part of limit is ignoring results, because their incorrect play is irrelevent if you have a hand you'd bet anyways. That type of play is saving you bets (aggro players will raise you and cost you more), so you should thank them for it.
Take free cards with position if you want, but bet good hands otherwise. Value betting is what beats limit
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Make a hand. Bet it hard.
If they have an overpair or a set which they never raise, so be it. They're losing money.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok here is a more specefic question lets say i have K/8 and flop middle pair in position and super passive checks . I bet and they flat call. Should i check the turn and river versus a player that is constantly weak playing top pair or should i bet the turn if they check and throw up the white flag if they call again?
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Mike_Ann
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 61
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how many player are in the pot???
how can you even play with K8??? BB
if you play K8 often then you're passive also
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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I'm guessing this is a hypothetical situation, and that he and the calling station are HU.
I'd value bet all the way down.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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I only play k8 from the bb and the sb once in a while or from the button or 1 off the button if it is soooted with atleast 3 limpers . Once in a blue moon i will raise it preflop from the button versus just the blinds.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mike_Ann
how many player are in the pot???
how can you even play with K8??? BB
if you play K8 often then you're passive also
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negative, sometimes in 6max play is the complete opposite from what a correct full ring play would tell you to do...
In a blind war which happens very often in 6max high cards are raised in value, K8s becomes a more playable hand getting 5:1 or bettor out of the blinds... K8o becomes a steal hand in some situations as well... granted that K8o is a very marginal hand and should be muck a vast majority of the time there are odd situations you might find yourself in with a similar hand to K8o in 6max that you won’t get into in full ring...
You last line "if you play K8 often then you're passive also" is bad thinking, here is why: Passive and aggressive have absolutely NOTHING to do with loose and tight... just because someone plays K8o a lot doesn't mean they are passive, it means they are probably too loose...
So really it sort of sounds as if you are trying to apply full ring game strategy to a 6max situation...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mike_Ann
how many player are in the pot???
how can you even play with K8??? BB
if you play K8 often then you're passive also
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negative, sometimes in 6max play is the complete opposite from what a correct full ring play would tell you to do...
In a blind war which happens very often in 6max high cards are raised in value, K8s becomes a more playable hand getting 5:1 or bettor out of the blinds... K8o becomes a steal hand in some situations as well... granted that K8o is a very marginal hand and should be muck a vast majority of the time there are odd situations you might find yourself in with a similar hand to K8o in 6max that you won’t get into in full ring...
You last line "if you play K8 often then you're passive also" is bad thinking, here is why: Passive and aggressive have absolutely NOTHING to do with loose and tight... just because someone plays K8o a lot doesn't mean they are passive, it means they are probably too loose...
So really it sort of sounds as if you are trying to apply full ring game strategy to a 6max situation... |
Do you see any significant preflop leaks in the way that i said i play k8 in my above post?
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
I only play k8 from the bb and the sb once in a while or from the button or 1 off the button if it is soooted with atleast 3 limpers . Once in a blue moon i will raise it preflop from the button versus just the blinds.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
Do you see any significant preflop leaks in the way that i said i play k8 in my above post?
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Nope sounds about right at first glance, sounds as if you only play it out of SB and BB with the odds to, and don’t get cute LP too often, more read specific to get any deeper…
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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ArcticKnight
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: golf course
Posts: 416
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mike_Ann
how many player are in the pot???
how can you even play with K8??? BB
if you play K8 often then you're passive also
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negative, sometimes in 6max play is the complete opposite from what a correct full ring play would tell you to do...
In a blind war which happens very often in 6max high cards are raised in value, K8s becomes a more playable hand getting 5:1 or bettor out of the blinds... K8o becomes a steal hand in some situations as well... granted that K8o is a very marginal hand and should be muck a vast majority of the time there are odd situations you might find yourself in with a similar hand to K8o in 6max that you won’t get into in full ring...
You last line "if you play K8 often then you're passive also" is bad thinking, here is why: Passive and aggressive have absolutely NOTHING to do with loose and tight... just because someone plays K8o a lot doesn't mean they are passive, it means they are probably too loose...
So really it sort of sounds as if you are trying to apply full ring game strategy to a 6max situation... |
Do you see any significant preflop leaks in the way that i said i play k8 in my above post? |
There is not enough info to detect a problem, other than to say that if this was not a blind steal attempt from the button, it would be hard to justify playing K8 out of the blinds for anyreason. If you are looking for info on game leaks, pick some hands that are giving you trouble and post them.
Saying K8 in postion is not enough info. What position exactly, did you raise or limp, were you suited or not, how many players yet to act, do the blinds defend aggressively, do they fold easy, do the defend passively.
Also, none of us call tell you about general preflop leaks by looking at one hand, but we can make some assuptions that if you are playing K8 in a given position, you may aslo be prone to playing weaks Aces, Q10os, Q9os, etc....which would be leaks.
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Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Ok here is an exact situaton I have k8 suited on the button and when it gets around to we have the blinds and 3 limpers in the pot. The table is passive and we can assume that i will get calls if i flop a hand like top 2 pair or a flush but i will have a hard time geting into a raising war as the other players are on the passive side. Is it ok to call and try to flop a draw like 4 to a flush or 2 pair or trip 8s After the flop i would value bet my flush draw then if i don't turn the flush i would probably call 1 big bet so long as i'm geting 5-1 or better on said call. I don't see any reason to 2 bet in this spot. If i flop top 2 pair or better im geting as much money in the pot as i can but will respect cordinated boards like 3 flush cards showing but will continue to be aggresive untill my opponent raises.
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I love the passive guys! Because I'm the kind of player would would probably call down people that raise me on the river when I have TPGK. Say I have AQ and I flopped a queen. If the other guy has a pair of kings, I WANT him to be passive. Otherwise I will lose more money.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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That's a perfectly reasonable and sound call littleogre. K8s is worth a limp with 3 prior limpers at a loose table.
6-max, I'll often open raise K8s from CO or later. But I fold K8 unless I have some super tights on my left. Depending on the table, K9o is about my threshold for open raising CO/But.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
Make a hand. Bet it hard.
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and take free cards and cheap showdowns when you need them.
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Poker is freedom
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Yar. Make a hand. Bet it hard. In the words of fnord, "Value bet but don't spray."
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