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Miggo
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11-22-2004, 05:59 PM
Post subject: How do people play these hands
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 153
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I never know what to do with these or similar to these. You're dealt QQ or KK UTG and raise, and get a caller or two. Flop comes A or K rag rag when you have QQ, or A rag rag when you have KK.
Do you just call and if you get raised, fold? Or do you call and if someone bets, then fold? Or do you you say, "For crying out loud this is the first hand I've had in 2 hours so I'm betting all the way to the river or until I run out of chips, whichever comes first" ? 
I never know what to do with these.
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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Think of it as 2nd pair. Treat it accordingly. It's no different than holding onto JTs and watching KT4 flop. It's and OK hand. I would bet it from early position, and watch for raises. Or call from late position and hope to improve.
Pre-flop, it's always tough to see an A flop when you hold KK, because it is very possible that you lost the pre-flop money you put into the pot. However, I feel that 2nd pair is among the easiest hands to play. it is easy to get away from to big raises and if it improves, it usually becomes the best hand.
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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kidpoker22
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: D-Town
Posts: 43
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Sometimes I like to just check the flop and see what develops. If someone shows strength I might just dump it right there. If someone makes a post-oak bet at me, I might call the flop then check/raise the turn. Try and represent a trap. I don't always do this though. If I haven't been playing many flops, i might just tap the pot and hope that people give me credit for an overpair or AK or something.
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KP22
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Bet out and proceed from there. That being said, it's far easier to play these out with position...
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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some advice from 2+2's small stakes hold 'em book:
if you are not first to act and someone to your right bets, RAISE to protect your hand. the first bettor could be on a draw or could also have 2nd pr. if your double bet shakes off someone behind you who's got top pair with a crappy kicker, you dramatically increase your chance to win the pot. you can also get a free card sometimes if the turn is a blank.
when i first read this, i found it totally counterintuitive. but so far in my last 2 weeks of play, it's been the most profitable idea i've gotten out of the book. you won't believe how often i've discovered that the first guy to bet on the flop was merely ramming 55 or even a gutshot.
ChezJ
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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shoot, i just re-read the original post and realized that this is a situation where the pot is shorthanded and thus relatively small. the advice i gave was for large pots where you have equity.
if you are first to act, bet out your hand. if raised, call but prepare to fold on the turn.
if you are last to act and nobody has bet, then clearly bet.
if someone bets right before you, i would still tend to raise and go for the free card play. but that's not 2+2's advice, that's just how i'd play it.
ChezJ
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChezJ
if someone bets right before you, i would still tend to raise and go for the free card play. but that's not 2+2's advice, that's just how i'd play it.
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I'd rather just fold. A "free" card isn't worth much on 2 outs. Getting to showdown cheap loses merit in a mulit-pot and getting 3-bet would really suck.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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here's a fitting example from a live game two nights ago.
8-handed game, $0.50/$1 limits, mix of loose and tight players. several players limp in, i RPF from LP with KK. i hear a collective groan but still get callers.
flop is AQx, very tight guy to my right bets, and i raise. everyone else mucks.
i'm pretty sure he has some kind of ace. he checks the turn and i take a free card.
he checks the river as well! i bet, thinking he could have ace-rag suited and might chuck it. he calls and shows AJo. he says he was convinced i had QQ when i raised the flop. so he only called for information.
if i'd checked the river, i would have gotten away very cheap on this hand.
ChezJ
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