|
golfguy37
|
05-15-2009, 02:37 AM
Post subject: How do I have to adjust my game from No Limit to Limit?
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Straight
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 217
|
|
I feel like I have a pretty solid No Limit game but my limit game struggles.
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
cohenleonard
|
|
High Card
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 10
|
|
set up a tent in the limit digest above.
it is loaded with valuable info and will get you pointed in the right direction. also, it would help to speculate where you think your leaks may be and of course posting hh's would be effective.
|
|
|
|
Chopper
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
|
|
open your range. you will be able to play more hands in LHE, imo. abuse position even more!! start stealing blinds at will w/ hands like J8s and K6s....hands you wouldnt often, if ever, play in a NL game. learn when/how to defend your blind.....it is actually worth something to you now. dont overvalue TPTK. and dont undervalue combo draws like midpair and gutshot. this is a little more of a drawing game. you are looking to be best by the showdown, not on the flop. 3bet to take initiative. c/r the flop to take initiative and set up a semibluff on the turn. dont bluff with air. call down with Ahi in HU spots.
shit like that. did i confuse you yet??
|
|
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
|
|
golfguy37
|
|
Straight
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 217
|
|
Thanks!
I read an article in that thread and I hope it will help. I just have one question. You say do more "blind stealing", but isn't that kinda hard in Limit when the blinds already have half as much money in as they need to call?
|
|
|
|
Chopper
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by golfguy37
Thanks!
I read an article in that thread and I hope it will help. I just have one question. You say do more "blind stealing", but isn't that kinda hard in Limit when the blinds already have half as much money in as they need to call?
|
fact of the matter is: they only need to fold a small % of the time for you to immediately show profit (i wish i was better at the math, but i think its around 1/3 of the time.) AND, when they call, you have position the rest of the way. you can call their donk cbet and take a turn. you can bet into them when they check and get like 6:1 on your money. you can really get in their heads, and the good players can really get in yours. its a great zig and zag match when you find a player that is willing.
but, again, the fact is most players would rather fold their blind...thinking "its not that much." when, i reality, its half a bb. when you only win 3 bb/100, thats a big chunk of your winrate right there in blind steals.....especially if the player doesnt think his blind is important. however, if most players 3bet you from a blind, it means business...since they usually just fold. therefore, they become easier to read and you can then play many, many more marginal hands against them profitably.
not to mention the things it does to them when you raise your 57s and actually hit a hand! they tend to start "playing back at you" when you hold AA in the future.....getting those paid off more, too.
|
|
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
|
|
golfguy37
|
|
Straight
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 217
|
|
Ok, what if i hold AA on teh button and I want some action. Should I just flat call and hope they hit some part of the flop?
|
|
|
|
Chopper
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
|
|
please tell me you are kidding.
|
|
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
|
|
golfguy37
|
|
Straight
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 217
|
|
nope lol. I would want to extract as much money as possible from him. If he raiesd me, I could just come over the top. 
|
|
|
|
Chopper
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
|
|
what do you do when you let him flop two pair, for free, with crap like 94o??
and, what do you do when he tries to trick you by only limping his JJ, but would have played a big pot thinking you usually have junk in this spot?? when two people BOTH slowplay each other, both should be shot.
your thinking is pretty bad here.
|
|
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
|
|
LawDude
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 940
|
|
There are some regulars at the live games I play at who do some creative stuff with pocket aces and sometimes it works-- and I have to admit it really is frustrating that no matter how tight a raiser normally plays, it is almost impossible to get anyone to fold to 2 or even 3 bets once they have limped into a pot pre-flop. So I understand the impulse to not bother raising aces.
Nonetheless, what I always notice is how much smaller the pots generally are that these guys take down with my aces.
When I bet my aces like a donkey, I usually end up with 6-10 bb's pre-flop, 3-5 bb's on the flop, plus 2 BB's on the turn and one on the river. And I'm a favorite to win that pot.
Whereas, in order to really get better value from your aces by slowplaying them, you need to be able to get all the way to the turn (i.e., 4 cheap or free cards) without anyone getting ahead of you so that you can then pull your check-raise or open raise. The people who slowplay their aces almost always end up with smaller pots when they do win.
The only slowplay tactic that sometimes works is if you have a real LAGGy type who loves to raise pots acting after you pre-flop, and you think you can get him to raise, sometimes you can limp-re-raise with your aces. But you better be pretty sure that the raise is coming; otherwise, you are just giving out cheap cards to beat you and failing to build the pot.
|
|
|
|
Chopper
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
|
|
you also have to get lucky enough for someone else to hit a 2nd best hand. thats why you dont limp them.
there are spots, but not with players you dont know and stakes with plenty of fish.
|
|
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
|
|
golfguy37
|
|
Straight
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 217
|
|
Thanks for the advice!
|
|
|
|
daven
|
|
05-20-2009, 01:29 PM
Post subject: Re: How do I have to adjust my game from No Limit to Limit?
|
#13 (permalink)
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, terrorising the micros
Posts: 5,502
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by golfguy37
I feel like I have a pretty solid No Limit game but my limit game struggles.
|
- read all digest posts
do some math (pot odds ftw)
learn to check it down
learn to value bet thinner
learn to exploit position harder
better distinguish stations from folders - this is a huge difference from no limit, cos bet sizing is fixed and "it#s only one more bet"
think about bluff catchers
open ranges in position and multi-way, but think about how to open up your ranges e.g. ATo vs 78s?
etc
|
|
|
|
PerfectlyHonest
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 11
|
|
Haha I enjoy playing no limit games more than limit. Limit takes longer and I've lost quite a bit in tournament chips. I like to play around a bit but with limit I feel like I can't "play around" (bluff) Lol
|
|
|
|
Chopper
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PerfectlyHonest
Haha I enjoy playing no limit games more than limit. Limit takes longer and I've lost quite a bit in tournament chips. I like to play around a bit but with limit I feel like I can't "play around" (bluff) Lol
|
you can bluff plenty in limit games. most people enjoy NL more than limit. but, i feel that no one studies limit....its just not as popular. therefore, the fish stay bad for longer. they dont lose their money as quickly, so they feel they are better at limit games.
no offense, but if you like to "play around," you probably dont have the grasp you think you do. you probably enjoy the gambling aspect more than creating and exploiting edges that make you a long term profitable player. in other words, you are likely too loose, or your post flop game cant keep up with your "goofing around."
study the game and post hands here. you'll figure things out pretty quickly.
here is a quick example of bluffing. you complete in the sb with trash for the sole reason of taking an Ahi/paired/scary flop away from the idiot that open limped in the CO. the BB checks, flop comes 339 and you donk with your 74o. they all fold A LOT! that's a quick and easy bluff with a high chance of success at the lower limits. and, its a bluff because i doubt you ever have the best hand with 74o.
for the NL players, my biggest pet peeve is when they hold AT in a HU pot, flop the A, bet small, get called, bet small again, get called again and SLAM the river all in when the draws missed. wtf are you trying to accomplish? the only thing calling you is a better hand, and you just folded off tons of hands, THAT MAY HAVE BLUFFED, out of the pot. you screwed yourself! but, tons of NL players think they bluffed in that spot instead.
thats not even close to a bluff. that is erasing any edge you had by forcing your opponents to play the river correctly.
|
|
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
|
|
conejo
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5
|
|
I think that playing Fixed Limit (FL) is particularly suitable for beginners to learn Hold'em, as the losses (but also the gain) are limited.
xD.
|
|
|
|
Chopper
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by conejo
I think that playing Fixed Limit (FL) is particularly suitable for beginners to learn Hold'em, as the losses (but also the gain) are limited.
xD.
|
my question is: can you achieve a higher winrate playing limit or NL at, say, the 1/2 blind level? 3/6? the winrates eventually come down, for most, to about a 2ish/100 from what i've heard/read/experienced. the higher you go in levels, the higher the skill level, thus, the smaller your edge, and the closer the game gets to breakeven.....except for the truly elite.
now, if you honestly thought about your winrate at those stakes, what kind of bankroll do you need to carry in limit vs NL? and, tell me which bankroll you will achieve first? wouldnt it then make sense to make roughly the same amount of money, with less of your roll at risk, and clear off rakeback/bonus money faster?
(this is a mid-stakes thought process, but i think it holds water)
|
|
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
|
|
shallam
|
|
08-17-2009, 10:20 PM
Post subject: Three Differences....
|
#18 (permalink)
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 98
|
|
Some differences between limit and no limit.
1. In limit poker primary draws almost always have the right pot odds, in no-limit agg opps can make drawing too expensive. It's easier to protect you hand in NL. For example, with AA I will often go all in on the flop if my opp has around 3x the pot or less. I fairly often get called and these opps are often making a big mistake by doing so not geting nearly the right odds.
2. Bluffing is more effective, and more costly when it fails, than in limit. The continuation bet is FAR more effective in NL than L.
3. Fast and slow draws. In no limit poker "fast" draws like small pairs that can flop hit a set often have strong value while in limit poker slow draws like straights and especially flushes have strong potential. The strength of suitedness is stronger in limit than no limit. This point is connected to point #1.
|
|
|
|
Chopper
|
|
08-17-2009, 11:04 PM
Post subject: Re: Three Differences....
|
#19 (permalink)
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shallam
Some differences between limit and no limit.
1. In limit poker primary draws almost always have the right pot odds, in no-limit agg opps can make drawing too expensive. It's easier to protect you hand in NL. For example, with AA I will often go all in on the flop if my opp has around 3x the pot or less. I fairly often get called and these opps are often making a big mistake by doing so not geting nearly the right odds.
2. Bluffing is more effective, and more costly when it fails, than in limit. The continuation bet is FAR more effective in NL than L.
3. Fast and slow draws. In no limit poker "fast" draws like small pairs that can flop hit a set often have strong value while in limit poker slow draws like straights and especially flushes have strong potential. The strength of suitedness is stronger in limit than no limit. This point is connected to point #1.
|
1.. true, but slamming a pot like that will never get you past the lowest stakes. however, it is EXTREMELY effective at microstakes.....and home games. but, the higher you travel in stakes, the closer you need to come to tempting them and riding the implied odds train to value town.
2.. i see what you are saying, but i believe this is false. its about odds. both the odds you offer to draw out, AND the odds your teeny weeny bluff will succeed. in LHE, your bluffs dont need to succeed that often to be profitable. it often takes two barrels, but when you connect on the turn, you switch to value town and your opponent has to decide if you are cbetting the turn or if that card actually helped. when the flop is about 8sb in size, you only need your bluff to succeed 1 in 8....or 13+% of the time to profit. therefore, you should cbet/valuebet every flop you were the aggressor before with one or two opponents w/ very little exception. to me, this "given scenario" just adds depth to the game, and those that constantly make the wrong play consistently line my pockets.....and it takes them FOREVER to find out why.
3.. so, all you do is make that adjustment. game over.
|
|
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
|
|
Cashman12
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4
|
|
ya blinds are very important in fl holdem compared to nl especially after about round 4-5 of the blind stages if your playing in a tournament, so to play smart i try to change my play style regularily during the game as you play people usually longer and get to learn there style.
|
|
|
|
arborman
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
|
|
Changing gears regularly is one of the key tenets of any style of poker.
I love it when I am at a table and by virtue of the cards I have been dealt I have a short-term vpip of 60% or so - it's about the only way to get decent players to pay me off later on, by letting them think I'm another fishy.
|
|
|
|
Enviropoker
|
|
09-06-2009, 11:36 AM
Post subject: I need to switch the other way
|
#22 (permalink)
|
|
High Card
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 10
|
|
Im in the exact opposite situation I need to switch from limit to no limit. I think there is more money to be made there now
|
|
|
|
vollski69
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: minnesota
Posts: 3
|
|
playin limit holdem is easy. play face cards, pairs, and high aces. dont try to bluff to much because you will get called almost all the time. beware that most people will bet big slick the whole way regards less if the hit anything.
|
|
|
|
Chopper
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by vollski69
playin limit holdem is easy. play face cards, pairs, and high aces. dont try to bluff to much because you will get called almost all the time. beware that most people will bet big slick the whole way regards less if the hit anything.
|
you are so wrong, you sound like the fish. no form of poker is that simple....even at the lowest levels.
|
|
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
02-11-2012, 09:04 PM Tennessee worries that Online Poker could reduce State Lottery revenues
Linear Mode
