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Hmmmm...could this be why I can't win online?

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LockLow34

12-07-2004, 12:35 AM Post subject: Hmmmm...could this be why I can't win online?

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Ashburn, VA

Posts: 266

I don't think this is atypical...

from today's action:

During current Hold'em session you were dealt 103 hands and saw flop:
- 6 out of 13 times while in big blind (46%)
- 5 out of 13 times while in small blind (38%)
- 23 out of 77 times in other positions (29%)
- a total of 34 out of 103 (33%)
Pots won at showdown - 4 of 8 (50%)
Pots won without showdown - 6

"How deep is the money?" - Fnord

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LeFou

12-07-2004, 12:51 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Ah, yes, 4 of 8 land.

We've all been there from time to time. If it keeps happening, dig up the history & analyse each of the 4 for obvious signs that you were beat.

elipsesjeff

12-07-2004, 01:20 AM

#3 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

- 6 out of 13 times while in big blind (46%)
- 5 out of 13 times while in small blind (38%)
- 23 out of 77 times in other positions (29%)
- a total of 34 out of 103 (33%)

You should be cutting your flop% in half. Your PF% (after taking out the blinds, of course) is over 29%. You are seeing way too many hands Pre-flop. Glad to see that you arent taking all of these to showdowns.

Were you at a real aggressive table? Folding 7/13 BB due to raises I believe is relatively high. Try better table selection, the one you were at was too aggressive, you want more passive games with a lot of limpers.

You also are seeing too many hands on the small blind. Limp with any two face cards, any two suited cards, and any pocket pair. Fold all above to a raise (with exception to normal raising card standards).

Feel inclined to protect your big blind more if the button raises and its just you and him in the pot. You want to discourage a reputation of easy blind stealing against you.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

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Fnord

12-07-2004, 02:05 AM Post subject: Re: Hmmmm...could this be why I can't win online?

#4 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Looks too loose, although that sample size is microscopic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

ChezJ

12-07-2004, 02:55 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Washington, D.C.

Posts: 1,456

ChezJ is an unknown quantity at this point

i don't have pokertracker so i don't my exact VP$IP, but UB keeps a running tab of how many flops i've seen in a given session and it's consistently 21-27%. that includes the BB, and i'm looser than i should be. so, if you are seeing the flop 29% of the time OUTSIDE the BB, then i think you must be including some very marginal hands in your starting hand criteria. are you playing A9o, KJo, and QTo? or maybe KXs in EP? are you cold-calling a lot of pre-flop raises? these are expensive leaks that used to hurt me.

ChezJ

LockLow34

12-07-2004, 02:58 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Ashburn, VA

Posts: 266

I forgot to cut/paste the final stats for the session. Believe it or not I actually finished UP an entire $0.10.

Quote:

Looks too loose, although that sample size is microscopic.

It is, but IIRC when I played on Party back in the spring and early summer, my numbers were about the same. Conversely, I know I play tighter in my live game. I also feel like I play more aggressively live as well.

I think it has to do with several factors. For one, it's easier to click a button than to take chips and put them in the center of the table. Another factor, I am easily distracted. If I'm physically at the table then I'm always at least somewhat aware of what is going on, how people are playing, etc, etc; but when I'm on the computer I'm much more likely to also be surfing the net, writing emails, chatting with friends, and so on. In addition to those factors, I find it much easier when looking at someone to put them on a hand. If I'm only going by betting patterns and seeing static icons then it's much more difficult for me.

Quote:

We've all been there from time to time. If it keeps happening, dig up the history & analyse each of the 4 for obvious signs that you were beat.

I've gotten the history of my entire session and will go through and analyze what was going on.

Quote:

Were you at a real aggressive table? Folding 7/13 BB due to raises I believe is relatively high. Try better table selection, the one you were at was too aggressive, you want more passive games with a lot of limpers.

Table was pretty tight/aggressive. Might have looked for a better table but Underdog82 was there and we were kibitzing while we played.

Quote:

Totally agree. In fact that's why I posted those stats in the first place. I know that's way too loose.

Quote:

You also are seeing too many hands on the small blind. Limp with any two face cards, any two suited cards, and any pocket pair. Fold all above to a raise (with exception to normal raising card standards).

Actually my sb standards are higher, in that I won't often call with hands that require a big draw to win, especially 'any 2 suited.' This may be a bit too tight but it's one area where I really spew chips, getting involved in a hand in bad position.

"How deep is the money?" - Fnord

Underdog72

12-08-2004, 07:42 AM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 24

Underdog(72) but I'll let that slide.

As I recall 2 of the showdowns lost were to me.

First was J,J vs ur 8,8. I was thinking with the preflop raise and the board being A, Rag, Rag there was just too much info saying a flop raise from u didn't mean u had an Ace. As with an Ace it would make more for you to trap me with it. The Q on the river did scare me some, but at that time the pot was too big to fold.

Second was your attempt to steal my bb

, might have worked had I thought u were an uncreative fish, but as a crafty player, good chance it was a steal. I defend with a semi-strong K,10o bb and hit 2 pair on the flop, bad for u it was Top pair for you as well.

The only real reason I sat down was to play with you, not to take ur $, but I play the same no matter what, best of luck next time. Looking for to playing with you some more.

Fnord

12-08-2004, 07:49 AM

#8 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog72

First was J,J vs ur 8,8. I was thinking with the preflop raise and the board being A, Rag, Rag there was just too much info saying a flop raise from u didn't mean u had an Ace. As with an Ace it would make more for you to trap me with it. The Q on the river did scare me some, but at that time the pot was too big to fold.

Would be an interesting hand to see...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

LockLow34

12-08-2004, 02:14 PM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Ashburn, VA

Posts: 266

This actually exemplifies one of my very bad habits online. I'll try to push someone off a better hand when I'm out of position. I was pretty sure Underdog had a big PP w/o an ace and the A would be a scare card.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: LockLow34 is BB with 8

, 8

.
UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO (UnderDog72)raises, Button folds, SB folds, LockLow34 3-bets, CO (UnderDog72)caps, LockLow34 calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 6

, 4

, A

(2 players)
LockLow34 bets, UnderDog72 calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 3

(2 players)
LockLow34 bets, UnderDog72 calls.

River: (7.20 BB) Q

(2 players)
LockLow34 bets, UnderDog72 raises, LockLow34 calls.

Final Pot: 11.20 BB

Results in white below: [color]
LockLow34 has 8

(one pair, eights).
UnderDog72 has J

(one pair, jacks).
Outcome: UnderDog72 wins 11.20 BB. [/color]

This was our introduction, and here is a bit of our conversation after the hand:

UnderDog72 said, "Bully"
LockLow34 said, "lol"
UnderDog72 said, "

"
LockLow34 said, "you couldn't put me on an ace there?"
UnderDog72 said, "Ur an ftr'er"
UnderDog72 said, "Of course not"
UnderDog72 said, "

"
LockLow34 said, "lol I thought I recognized the handle"
LockLow34 said, "had pocket 8's"

"How deep is the money?" - Fnord

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