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|~|ypermegachi
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12-03-2004, 04:11 AM
Post subject: hmmm maybe i should start playing with a 50% VP$IP
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...5&o=14&fpart=1
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Did you read the responses by those 2+2 A$$munches?
The one guys says "you'll probably lose it all back tenfold before you realzie you're a losing player." As he presents 37k hands where he is destroying the game. Though my argument has no weight, is it not possible that is a 50 V$PI a necessitty to dominate 6max? It just seems like though poker is a changing game over time, there established system is the best and no guy with an astronmical win-rate is going to change that.
I just can't believe no one trys to figure out why he's winning, everyone just tells him why, by their standards, he should be losing and calling him a "numpty."
btw, that's insane. He's cleaning up.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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well it was over 12000 hands, so i doubt it was just a lucky streak. you can't be THAT lucky.
but from what the stats show, it seems like he raises a lot and takes down lots of pots uncontested. he doesn't go to showdowns very often, so he folds when he knows he's beat.
i'm not sure about 50% VPIP, Miller mentions that even the best players cannot overcome this much looseness with superior postflop play.
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
he should be losing and calling him a "numpty."
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I think that is supposed to be an insult on me. But I don't know how.
Anyway, this guy is making 13BB/100 on 6-max and has made $37K and they are telling him he needs to get real?
That's why I will only watch 2+2 from the outside and never post. It's full of people like this, who will berate you for posting any numbers other than 75BB/100 and up.
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Haha, I'd never go for such a low blow by associating you with a guy who is winning 13BB/100.
I'm above that. 
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
well it was over 12000 hands, so i doubt it was just a lucky streak. you can't be THAT lucky.
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Luck had a LOT to do with it.
He's probably a really good player and got away with playing too loose for 12k hands.
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LockLow34
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 266
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Did you read the responses by those 2+2 A$$munches?
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Welcome to 2+2. LOL The atitude by those posters is so pervasive throughout that whole board. It's why I hardly ever post over there. Methinks they may be jealous.
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I just can't believe no one trys to figure out why he's winning, everyone just tells him why, by their standards, he should be losing and calling him a "numpty."
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It's not like the guy is rubbing it in or anything like that. He really is asking if he's just been SUPER lucky over that many hands. And those idiots who are so well versed in math and statistics don't even bring up the idea that the original poster might just happen to be a statistical outlier who's results lay at the far winning end of the bell curve.
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btw, that's insane. He's cleaning up.
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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This is an interesting subject. I've often wondered what would happen if you played VERY loose in these games pre-flop, but used expert play post-flop.
Playing "weird" hands can result in situations where from time to time flops are hitting you hard and completely missing everyone else. Flops like A66 become especially dangerous with a player like this. Generally, in tight game s you aren't too concerned about baby pairs on the flop unless the blinds are going nuts on you. Maybe he is making up a lot of ground on these kinds of hands, where AQ and AK refuse to believe they are beat and keep raising...
With VP$IP numbers that high, he is probably a target of a slew of PT users who can't wait to get in a hand with him. They are trying to punish him with their big cards while he beats them with strange 2 pair and straight hands.
Is it possible for his post flop play + hitting rag flops hard to make him a bunch of $$? I'm not sure, but it is an interesting concept. Maybe it is possible for him to make up all of those SB's when his opponents overbet TPTK's into him when he nails a flop. This would also require him to do a lot of laying down on the flop when he whiffs.
The Gus Hanson of limit poker?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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El Diablo has some insightful (as always) comments on the subject. One of the tricks of 2+2 is knowing who's more likely signal vs noise.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lonnie
The Gus Hanson of limit poker?
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LAggy/Tricky works in NL poker because the odd hand can pay you off big, particularly when the money is deep (100+ BB.) This is less true in limit poker. Particularly in a short-handed setting where you need to pull down more than your fair share of small pots because you can't count on the big inflated multi-pot to make up the slack.
Now if he found opposition too weak tight to call him down thin...
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Toasty
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: England UK
Posts: 1,522
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Personally I think this is just a freakish run of amazing luck or poker paul is set to revolutionise poker.
But congrats that man!
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Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Toasty
Personally I think this is just a freakish run of amazing luck or poker paul is set to revolutionise poker.
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God, I hope a lot more people try to play like that.
Although, consider that a lot of his VP$IP is from defeding his BB 80% of the time. If I defended that often I think that alone would get me over 30%.
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Welcome to 2+2. LOL The atitude by those posters is so pervasive throughout that whole board. It's why I hardly ever post over there. Methinks they may be jealous.
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You are so right..I posted a hand there one time and it will be my last. A lot of them aren't trying to be helpful, they just like making snide comments and do their best to make you look like an idiot. Check out this thread I started a while back...it is the same hand I posted at FTR.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&view=&sb=5&o=
Here are some of the 'gems' of the 2+2 flame board in the 50% VPIP thread. The only one with any merit is the first one.
Quote:
As it stands, you are just like the kid in fourth grade that said he had 500 nintendo games but wouldn't ever let you come over and play them: full of sh!t.
What do you want, you're the greatest poker player ever? Dude, you're not beating the game for 13bb, lol. Get real.
dude, you're an idiot.
Thats really good proof; not of what you wanted but it sure shows that even a numpty can run amazingly well over the short run.
When your threads deserve helpful and articulate responses I shall provide them.
the thing that I like about this is that you'll probably lose back what you've made tenfold before you figure out that you're a losing player.
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LockLow34
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 266
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lonnie
You are so right..I posted a hand there one time and it will be my last. A lot of them aren't trying to be helpful, they just like making snide comments and do their best to make you look like an idiot. Check out this thread I started a while back...it is the same hand I posted at FTR.
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When I was starting out I posted in the beginners forum a hand where I'd made the mistake of checking behind 2 opponents on the river with an underfull. One of the posters actually said my check was "unconscionable." Um, whatever. A bit melodramatic, to say the least. Right then I started looking for another place to post, and that's when I came across FTR. SO much more friendly. 
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LockLow34
When I was starting out I posted in the beginners forum a hand where I'd made the mistake of checking behind 2 opponents on the river with an underfull. One of the posters actually said my check was "unconscionable." Um, whatever. A bit melodramatic, to say the least. Right then I started looking for another place to post, and that's when I came across FTR. SO much more friendly. |
FWIW, the attitude there is that if you can't take a few harsh words, you're probably not thick skinned enough to be a successful poker player. I think there's a little merit to that point of view, though I could never be quite so harsh as some of them.
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LockLow34
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 266
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by koolmoe
FWIW, the attitude there is that if you can't take a few harsh words, you're probably not thick skinned enough to be a successful poker player. I think there's a little merit to that point of view, though I could never be quite so harsh as some of them.
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Yes, but some of them seem to want to raise it to an art form.
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"How deep is the money?" - Fnord
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Gatlin Dan
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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Just a quick addition from my POV. I first heard of 2+2 from a 2+2 book. I thought that "This is cool, a place that will help me with my poker playing." I went to the site, signed up and started browsing. It didn't take me long to realize that posting in a place like that would not help my poker game but hinder it, leaving me frustrated and turning me off from the game. I realized getting any useful information from these guys was going to be more painful than learning it myself on the tables...
There had to be a better way. I was browsing the private tournaments in Pokerstars when I came across one of the FTR gauntlet tournaments. I saw the web address and wondered what in the hell is this? It was the answer to what I've been looking for. Thanks you guys, all of you. In my mind, FTR is the way a forum should be ran. It is a shining example of the tools one can use to become a better player. Awesome.
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