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HH help, on a big down turn!!!

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dvda

03-02-2006, 02:44 AM Post subject: HH help, on a big down turn!!!

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 76

The wheels have com off the bus, big time. I’m on a bit of a losing streak right now and I’m in need of some help.

On average I play 20% of hand out of all other positions, and I have just started to use pot odds. I have just read SSH and I’m now on the second read of it. I like to think I’m not a fish and will one day turn a profit. But its going wrong again.

I chose the following hands for all to pick over. I have not picked out just bad beats, enjoy!

Hand#1.
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with A

, T

. MP2 posts a blind of $0.07.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, 3 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 5

, 5

, A

(5 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (7.20 BB) J

(4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

River: (9.20 BB) Q

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 11.20 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has As Ts (two pair, aces and fives).
UTG+2 has Ac 4h (two pair, aces and fives).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins 5.60 BB. Hero wins 5.60 BB.

Hand#2
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K

, A

.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 3

, 8

, J

(4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) 5

(4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (10.20 BB) Q

(4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, BB raises, UTG 3-bets, Hero folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 17.20 BB

Results in white below:
BB has Jd 8d (two pair, jacks and eights).
UTG has Qs 5s (two pair, queens and fives).
Outcome: UTG wins 17.20 BB.

Hand#3.
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J

, J

.
2 folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB(BIG DONKEY) calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 3

, K

, 7

(4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero raises, MP2 folds, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) J

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (8 BB) 8

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Results in white below:
SB has 5d Kd (one pair, kings).
Hero has Js Jc (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 10 BB.

Hand#4
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q

, K

.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3

, 9

, 6

(5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 3

(5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks.

River: (2.50 BB) Q

(5 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Qc Ks (two pair, queens and threes).
UTG has Kc 3c (three of a kind, threes).
Outcome: UTG wins 6.50 BB.

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euphoricism

03-02-2006, 04:14 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Hand 1 fine
Hand 2, multi-way, I think you're toast here approximately 99.9% of the time. Fold to the river donk
Hand 3, I check behind on the river.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
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ArcticKnight

03-02-2006, 05:47 AM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

dvda...just curious,,,are most of the.5/.10 games that passive?

It looks your opponents are plugging nickles into a slot machine every hand and then "ding- ding" they raise when they hit something, otherwise it's check/call or fold.

You must get sucked out lots with all the passive limping/calling stations.

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

mike4066

03-02-2006, 12:25 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,943

#1
I play it the same

#2
Check the turn through w/position 4 way

#3
The flop donk screams pair, your raise takes control of the hand, perfect turn card plays easy from there.

IF you don't hit your jack on the turn i'm 50/50 as to if I'm betting the river or not.

#4
You could consider folding knowing how pasive these guys are, how good your read is and how small the pot is.
But i'm a sucker for calling it off too.

mike4066

03-02-2006, 12:27 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,943

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Hand 3, I check behind on the river.

re-read the hand

euphoricism

03-02-2006, 03:24 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Hand 1 fine
Hand 2, multi-way, I think you're toast here approximately 99.9% of the time. Fold to the river donk
Hand 3, I check behind on the river.

wtf dvda? Did you change the hands or something?

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

dvda

03-02-2006, 04:24 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 76

Okay, these .05/.10 limit games are passive 80% of the time , tight 10%, and super loose 10% it just depends. The passive will play:
Any Big Card with a small card, A-rag, K-rag, Q-rag, J-rag
Any connected cards
Any two suited cards
They will also play all of the above hands in any position.

Hand#2 – I don’t like for people to draw free cards from me.

Hand#4 – I see this as an orphan pot and was sure my two-pair was good, now I can see I was wrong to pay off the raise in such in a small pot. Was I wrong to bet at the pot?

dvda

03-02-2006, 05:01 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 76

Hand#5
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with A

, J

.
1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J

, 2

, 6

(4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, Hero calls, BB 3-bets, MP1 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (11.50 BB) J

(3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 folds, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls.

River: (19.50 BB) 4

(2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 27.50 BB

Results in white below:
MP1 has 2c 2d (full house, twos full of jacks).
Hero has Ac Jc (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: MP1 wins 27.50 BB.

Hand#6 this table was very loose, players were raising-capping with nothing. I was waiting for the monster starting hand……..
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

, K

.
3 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, Hero caps, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (24 SB) 3

, 9

, T

(6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Button 3-bets, SB folds, Hero caps, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (21 BB) 2

(5 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

River: (41 BB) Q

(5 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, MP3 calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 55 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Kd Ks (one pair, kings).
MP1 has Js Kc (straight, king high).
MP3 has 7d Qd (one pair, queens).
Button has Ts Td (three of a kind, tens).
Outcome: MP1 wins 55 BB.

elipsesjeff

03-02-2006, 05:06 PM

#9 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

dvda, I'm probably the only one that knows what your name means and its hilarious to see everyone use it in this thread.

Thats really the only usefull information i can give.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

Fnord

03-02-2006, 05:11 PM

#10 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Hamster style!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

elipsesjeff

03-02-2006, 06:45 PM

#11 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

Chowda boy!

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

drtofu66

03-02-2006, 06:56 PM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 595

I still don't know how they arrange 4 guys to do that.

Xanadu

03-02-2006, 07:34 PM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

Hand 1, probably better to check the flop, especially if one of the late position players is aggressive. Point is to hope for a late bet to check raise. with over 10 bets in the pot already, betting won't protect your hand and it is better to hope for a good check-raise or a turn bet.

Hand 2, 4-way I don't like betting the turn ... hope for a free card. The river call is very bad. You think UTG is suddenly going to bluff the river into 3 players with no pair?

Hand 3, very well done. You protect your hand and also take control from the leader.

Hand 4, Raise preflop. River call is fine ... no reason not to think your opponent just hit a Q and you are still best.

Hand 5, way too aggressive post flop. It may be hard to find a fold here, but you at least need to know to slow down. The action screams that someone has a set. Sure, call down, but you lost 4-6 BB you shouldn't have with your turn and river raises.

Hand 6, unless this flop action is typical for most hands at your table, at best you are drawing to counterfeit 2pair or spike a king for top set. Fold to the 3-bet.

dvda

03-02-2006, 08:08 PM

#14 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 76

Thanks all, Xanadu always comes up with the goods.

Xanadu, I don’t disagree with what you have said, but would like to comment and to follow up on your response.

Hand#4. Normally I would have raised this hand, but I was going by book SSH, and they don’t recommend a raise there.

Hand#6. The players at this table were manic. Are you recommending I fold to the 3bet before the flop? I could not see where I could have got away from this hand.

I see the error of my ways on #2 and #5,

Hand#2. I thought betting would make the other fold, hardly ever happens.

Hand#5. Completely missed the pair on the board there could be a boat out there, I was sure he had J but with a weaker kicker.

Xanadu

03-02-2006, 08:37 PM

#15 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

Hand 4, calling is ok ... I am probably too used to 6-max.

Hand 6 I was talking about folding on the flop. Your cap preflop is definitely good. And again, if your table is full of maniacs and the flop is typically capped, your flop cap is fine. At a more normal table, I would fold on the flop facing 3 bets.

Hand 2, good idea, bad situation. You just aren't going to get 3 people to fold often enough to make this profitable.

Hand 5, hate to say it, but since the pair gave you trips, hard to believe you didn't notice it ... Trips top kicker is normally a killer hand, but with the action on this hand, you must suspect a flopped set and just call down.

dvda

03-02-2006, 09:00 PM

#16 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 76

Sorry I wrote #5 wrong.

Hand#5. Completely missed the theory of “a pair on the board means there could be a boat out there”(I knew a pair was out there), I was sure he had J but with a weaker kicker. Full-boat never cross my mind at any point, hopefully I’ll learn by my mistakes.

midas06

03-02-2006, 09:45 PM

#17 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

What's dvda a ref to?

dvda

03-02-2006, 10:50 PM

#18 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 76

Thanks again for the advice, its works. I have I better ideas now of how to play AK.

Hand#7
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A

, K

.
3 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 4

, 2

, T

(4 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, CO calls, BB folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7.20 BB) 4

(3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

River: (7.20 BB) K

(3 players)
MP1 bets, Hero raises, CO folds, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 11.20 BB

Results in white below:
MP1 has Th Jc (two pair, tens and fours).
Hero has Ad Ks (two pair, kings and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 11.20 BB.

mike4066

03-03-2006, 11:55 AM

#19 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,943

Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

dvda, I'm probably the only one that knows what your name means and its hilarious to see everyone use it in this thread.

Thats really the only usefull information i can give.

Don't thnik your that slick, just cuz we didn't point it out

elipsesjeff

03-03-2006, 04:34 PM

#20 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

mike4066

03-03-2006, 04:59 PM

#21 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,943

#5 I probably leave the river @ 2 bets, considering he 3bet you on the turn and still wnats to raise you on the river, its tough to put him on a flush draw.

#6
I think i slow down on the turn, IE not 3betting there, and not raising the river. Pot is out of control and at this point i'm wanting to see a showdown cheap and waiting to be shown some garbage

#7
I like the river raise, you don't get 3bet by slightly better hands and will get called by much worse ones.

Jimmy Mac

03-03-2006, 05:02 PM

#22 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Drinking your milkshake.

Posts: 950

Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

What's dvda a ref to?

The D's both stand for "double". You can work the rest out.

Xanadu

03-03-2006, 05:52 PM

#23 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

It's david spelled very badly, or the product of the differentials of velocity and acceleration.

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HH help, on a big down turn!!!

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