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HH: Good preflop Play?

  
 
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Tripps7
Old 03-21-2005, 04:25 PM     Post subject: HH: Good preflop Play? #1 (permalink)  
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Table seemed pretty loose only my third hand at the table. I usually only three bet AKo but I thought this was a perfect scenario to cap it cold. It was obvious that at least one person was not playing gOOt poker.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, K.
3 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.



Final Pot: 26.25 BB
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Old 03-21-2005, 04:35 PM #2 (permalink)  
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you know what? you could actually make the case to fold this preflop.

MP1 raises, which means overcards or high pocket pair.
MP2 cold calls, which means lower pocket pair or something like AQ or KQ
MP3 3bets, which means high pocket pair or AK.

seems to me you're drawing to very few outs with no flush to bail you out.
 
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Chicago_Kid
Old 03-21-2005, 04:39 PM     Post subject: Re: HH: Good preflop Play? #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripps7
only my third hand at the table.
Third hand, and you can say the table's loose? I try to keep my big moves to a minimum in the first 10-15 hands at the table. What's the likely scenario here? You are most likely behind, and possibly even with the re-raiser. So, without previous reads on these players, I think I fold and learn more.
"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
 
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Tripps7
Old 03-21-2005, 04:54 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Third hand, and you can say the table's loose?
There were seven people in the first hand and 5 in the second. MP1 or MP2, I don't remember which, showed down K9o the previous hand. With MP3 I had about 60 hands from a previous session in PT and he had 52%/17%/3.2.

Quote:
you know what? you could actually make the case to fold this preflop.
I was either going to fold or raise. No sense in just calling the 3 bet as it will most likely get capped anyways.

I'll post the rest of the hand in a while, it was pretty interesting...
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Chicago_Kid
Old 03-21-2005, 05:12 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripps7
There were seven people in the first hand and 5 in the second. MP1 or MP2, I don't remember which, showed down K9o the previous hand. With MP3 I had about 60 hands from a previous session in PT and he had 52%/17%/3.2. I was either going to fold or raise. No sense in just calling the 3 bet as it will most likely get capped anyways.

I'll post the rest of the hand in a while, it was pretty interesting...
Interested. However, it's a raise, a called raise, and a 3-bet with two players to come. Don't you think one of them is ahead of you? Do you want to be 4-way offsuited, when its likely several of your outs are probably in the hands of your opponents?

By the sound of your tease, maybe the flop hit you well. In general, however, I would folded and thought "let's just see how weak these guys are" and looked for a better spot. I mean, you just sat down...no hurry to throw money in the pot...
"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
 
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Gatlin Dan
Old 03-21-2005, 05:14 PM #6 (permalink)  
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As Fnord would say:

"Raise, Cold-capping is fun."

Truthfully, I would seriously consider laying this down as well. I got to have more information before putting in that much money pre-flop. You are likely drawing slim almost dead.

You probably filled a straight to take down a pot against AQs, KK, and AA or something crazy like that.
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Tripps7
Old 03-21-2005, 06:33 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I am on board with agreeing it was a VERY loose play. But it was just one of those things with the information I had at the time I just made the call. I was all set to three bet the raise from MP2 until MP3 3-bet. I seriously considered folding unitl I saw his PT stats above. 60 hands isn't a lot but with those numbers I had a pretty good Idea.

I have to agree with Fnord cold-capping IS fun...

The rest of the hand:

Flop: (17.50 SB) Q, J, T (4 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 9 (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP3 3-bets, Hero caps, MP3 calls.

River: (18.25 BB) 8 (2 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 3-bets, Hero caps, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 26.25 BB

Results in white below:
MP3 has Ks As (straight, ace high).
Hero has Ah Kc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: MP3 wins 13.12 BB. Hero wins 13.12 BB.

My call was loose, but MP1 and MP2's call must have been a lot looser if that flop missed them...
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RiverMonkey
Old 03-21-2005, 06:38 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypermegachi
you know what? you could actually make the case to fold this preflop.

MP1 raises, which means overcards or high pocket pair.
MP2 cold calls, which means lower pocket pair or something like AQ or KQ
MP3 3bets, which means high pocket pair or AK.

seems to me you're drawing to very few outs with no flush to bail you out.
I have to wonder if you are giving our PP$2/4 'friends' too much credit. People habitually cold-call from all positions with an assortment of less-than-stellar hands (e.g. QTo, any-face+face, A7o etc.)

Overcards to AK?

Can't argue with the possibility of high pocket pair ..... but it could be Js or another AKo, or TT, or QQ.

I agree, a suited AK would be much nicer here.

In no-limit, I'd consider a fold pre-flop ... To be honest, I've never considered folding AKo (or AKs) pre-flop in limit (small stakes), and I'm not sure I ever would.

(FWIW, since I started building my PT DB about 3 weeks ago, I've had AKo 80 times. I've won the pot 52% of the time).
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Old 03-21-2005, 08:15 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverMonkey
I have to wonder if you are giving our PP$2/4 'friends' too much credit. People habitually cold-call from all positions with an assortment of less-than-stellar hands (e.g. QTo, any-face+face, A7o etc.)
if you play this hand you open up yourself to reverse implied odds.
 
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ChezJ
Old 03-21-2005, 08:53 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 i guess i'm going to be the only one who thinks it's a no-brainer to cap AK, 7 days a week and twice on sunday.

ChezJ
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Chicago_Kid
Old 03-21-2005, 09:20 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypermegachi
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverMonkey
I have to wonder if you are giving our PP$2/4 'friends' too much credit. People habitually cold-call from all positions with an assortment of less-than-stellar hands (e.g. QTo, any-face+face, A7o etc.)
if you play this hand you open up yourself to reverse implied odds.
I guess my retrospective beef is that (1) you just sat down (2) you're not suited, and after seeing the results (3) it was a split. btw--did you notice MP3 was suited?

Glad you hit your flop!
"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
 
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RiverMonkey
Old 03-21-2005, 11:45 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChezJ
i guess i'm going to be the only one who thinks it's a no-brainer to cap AK, 7 days a week and twice on sunday.

ChezJ

NO, you are definitely not alone!!

Hyper, I agree with your assessment in the context of tight games. But, I'm not too worried about RIOs in the loose limit games I play in.

Over the long run, I'm going to make money playing AKo in large pots when (a) my opponents are playing worse hands for 2/3 bets cold, and (b) they suck post-flop!
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Demiparadigm
Old 03-22-2005, 12:05 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Always cap AK. There are only 2 hands that you are afraid of. It is limit. This is an easy fold in no limit, and an obvious raise in limit. You have to see the flop. You have position, and flop action should tell you where you are.
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Fnord
Old 03-22-2005, 06:09 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Nate tha' Great of 2+2 says he's never laid down AK pre-flop. SSH says you should at least consider it in some situations. I think I've done it once or twice. I really don't think it matters much. Certainly if the 3-bet is from a pre-flop aggro player this is an easy cold cap.
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