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zenbitz

11-15-2004, 03:15 AM Post subject: Hey who is this LAG!

#1 (permalink)

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CARDSON
***** Hand History for Game 1179918117 *****
$0.5/$1 Hold'em - Sunday, November 14, 23:07:16 EDT 2004
Table Pumas & Cheetals (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: dhalsim ( $0 )
Seat 6: JimmyDooo ( $52.5 )
Seat 7: zenbitz ( $23.25 )
Seat 5: dfscott1 ( $29.75 )
Seat 8: jcpool ( $34 )
Seat 3: dslguy ( $20.25 )
Seat 10: ccgreg ( $22.25 )
Seat 9: KingDoych ( $14.25 )
Seat 2: LDRider ( $34.5 )
Seat 1: CompuDragons ( $15.5 )
zenbitz posts small blind [$0.25].
jcpool posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to zenbitz [

]
dhalsim has left the table.
KingDoych calls [$0.5].
ccgreg folds.
CompuDragons folds.
LDRider folds.
dslguy raises [$1].
dfscott1 folds.
JimmyDooo folds.
zenbitz calls [$0.75].
jcpool calls [$0.5].
KingDoych calls [$0.5].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, 3s, 8c ]
zenbitz checks.
jcpool checks.
KingDoych checks.
dslguy bets [$0.5].
zenbitz raises [$1].
jcpool folds.
KingDoych calls [$1].
dslguy calls [$0.5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
zenbitz bets [$1].
KingDoych calls [$1].
dslguy folds.
** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]
zenbitz checks.
KingDoych bets [$1].
zenbitz raises [$2].
KingDoych calls [$1].
zenbitz shows [ 4h, 4c ] a full house, Fours full of sevens.
KingDoych doesn't show [ 8d, 9h ] two pairs, eights and sevens.
zenbitz wins $12.25 from the main pot with a full house, Fours full of sevens.

OH! I'm the LaGG! KingD was pretty fishy, 46% V$IP in ~2 orbits, dslguy was a pretty tight player, but passive.

I went instinctive and got lucky. Shold have folded pre-flop, and probably the flop as well, but I thought with that flop, my raise might drive out Mr. Tight Passive, and I was unconcerned with the other guy's PF call and flop check. Bad play (but at least agressive) saved by the turn.

The funny bit is, if I had cold-called on the flop, I probably would have extracted more chips from them!

Well, just so this post has some content - I really don't have a good feel for what to play in the small blind in lower limits ($1 or $2 BB). I used to play EVERYTHING in .5/1, and it didn't really hurt me. I now won't play like Q4 or J6 os - maybe Kx-suited or 1-gappers suited. Maybe like Q9os.

Also depends on how many limpers ahead of me. I will even make feeble blind steals if it's folded around (feeble because it's a $1-2 blind in a limit game!)

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elipsesjeff

11-15-2004, 05:32 AM

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Quote:

Well, just so this post has some content - I really don't have a good feel for what to play in the small blind in lower limits ($1 or $2 BB). I used to play EVERYTHING in .5/1, and it didn't really hurt me. I now won't play like Q4 or J6 os - maybe Kx-suited or 1-gappers suited. Maybe like Q9os.

Let me see if I can answer this without looking at SSH (I need practice):

Considering all loose games (6+ players per flop)
From the small blind for 1/2 small bet you would play:

Any 2 suited cards, and non-suited combination 10 and higher, as well as the normal Axs and Kxs, any pocket pair.

You would raise: AA-99, AKs-A10s, AKo-A10o, KQs-KJs, KQ

Against a raise play:
Any pocket pair, Axs, KQs-KJs

Reraise: AA-99, AKs-AJs, AKo-AQo

Against a Raise and a Re-raise:

Only raise: AA-99, AKs-AQs, AKo-AQo.

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elipsesjeff

11-15-2004, 05:44 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Now to Check my results:

Sklansky says:

If no raise: Play all above mentioned hands.

Do not raise: (against what i said above) AJo and KQo

Although i've been raising these hands because I am trying to become more aggressive, I say borderline raises for AJo and KQo, if you are going to play them, you might as well raise them.

Against a Raise:

Do not play any Axs, only AKs-ATs. Add KTs, QJs, JTs (I dont know if i would play these against a raise, but thats what Sklansky says.)

Do not reraise 99, raise KQs.
(I would raise 99 but again, I'm turning more aggressive.)

Against a Raise and a Re-raise:
Do not raise 99 or play it, go as low as TT. Play KQs but do not raise as well as AKo and AQs-AJs.

I would be inclined to cap with TT, and if i'm going to play AKo I'm going to cap it and I'm not cold-calling AQs if I had too. AJs I would rather fold than cold-call, if i'm playing i'm raising. KQs I'm still iffy on.

Thats one strange thing about Sklansky, he has you cold-call a lot of hands, at least to me anyway. I would think a more advanced/aggressive player would either raise or fold these hands.

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Fnord

11-15-2004, 12:03 PM

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Few online games are SSH "loose". You really need to see a live B&M low limit game to appreciate it. So get used to the SSH "tight" standards.

PP defense from the SB is ok. Maybe marginal EV, but I don't like rolling over too easily from my blind.

The flop raise in a multi-pot is horrible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

ChezJ

11-15-2004, 03:36 PM

#5 (permalink)

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I could not agree more with Fnord.

I've been testing the SSH method for the last week and lost a buttload of money in very low limit games that were not too loose. Specifically, $0.25/$0.50 limit at UB (friggin rock garden) and $0.50/$1 and $1/$2 in two home games (mostly decent players).

A lot of the techniques just don't work when your opponents are playing as tight as you are. E.g., raising pre-flop with premium hands gives you an edge against fish who play any two cards, but not against players who probably have equally good holdings.

The biggest mistake I made was to follow 2+2's advice to limp in from SB with any two suited. I had J3s in the SB and limped into an unraised, multiway pot. Hit a draw and bet it, having correct pot odds to do so. Got raised by the button who hit a set. I called that one, since the pot was even bigger so I definitely had the right odds.

Blank on the turn, I bet (again with correct odds), BB calls, MP raises, button re-raises. But the pot's so big, I'm still getting more than 5:1 to draw. So I call the double-raise. Everyone calls.

I hit my flush on the river and check-raise, putting the pot over $50 (this is the $1/$2 game). Turn over my flush only to be beaten by an ace high flush. Sadly, the BB had a baby flush. And the guy with the set was drawing to a boat.

Thanks a lot, Sklansky!!

Seriously though, I think the SSH stuff will only work at truly awful games such as those at Party Poker, or the lowest limit games in a B&M casino. I'm sure it would work great at the $2/$4 tables at the Taj. But I'm reverting to my normal supertight game at UB and in my home games.

ChezJ

Fnord

11-15-2004, 04:36 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ChezJ

Seriously though, I think the SSH stuff will only work at truly awful games such as those at Party Poker, or the lowest limit games in a B&M casino. I'm sure it would work great at the $2/$4 tables at the Taj. But I'm reverting to my normal supertight game at UB and in my home games.

For Party:
.5/1 is close
1/2 unsure (garbage limit IMHO)
2/4 and up plays SSH tight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

zenbitz

11-15-2004, 04:37 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Ah, that note about "loose" vs. on-line loose is critical. It also explains that the starter cheat sheet (from Abdul) was all about. It had basically SSH openers from the SB (Jx, XXs, 2-gappers down to 63 os!) - roughly 1/2 of all hands.

It seemed odd that this was too many hands to play on the .5/1 Party table, but if B&M low limit tables are even looser, it begins to deobfuscate.

Fnord

11-15-2004, 04:39 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

It seemed odd that this was too many hands to play on the .5/1 Party table, but if B&M low limit tables are even looser, it begins to deobfuscate.

At the right table it's 6+ to every flop. At some tables it's even 5+ way capped pre-flop just about every hand, but in those games you must tighten up and bring a thick roll!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

11-15-2004, 04:43 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ChezJ

The biggest mistake I made was to follow 2+2's advice to limp in from SB with any two suited. I had J3s in the SB and limped into an unraised, multiway pot. Hit a draw and bet it, having correct pot odds to do so. Got raised by the button who hit a set. I called that one, since the pot was even bigger so I definitely had the right odds.

At a good online table it's not far from correct. For a 1/2 format I narrowed down the range from any suited to Axs+, K5s+, 54s+, 64s+. For 1/3 you need to be tigher and maybe any 2 suited for 2/3. Unsuited connectors suck, really bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

|~|ypermegachi

11-15-2004, 04:59 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

ah crap! use the tight guidelines?? shoulda told me earlier :'(

zenbitz

11-15-2004, 05:03 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

. Unsuited connectors suck, really bad.

Maybe this is obvious, but is this because the fish are playing any two suited, so the relative value of a straight is lowered?

rlr

11-15-2004, 10:33 PM

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Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenbitz

Maybe this is obvious, but is this because the fish are playing any two suited, so the relative value of a straight is lowered?

It's just they don't come in often enough to justify plaything them usually. With suited conntectors you have the potential for both a flush and a straight draw which just makes it that much better of a hand. (I believe we're speaking like 3-4o, 5-6o, 8-9o etc) Even if you hit two pair there are plenty of chances to get beat by a higher two pair, a set, the possibility of counterfitting one of your pairs etc...

Straights are great and win frequently but the value you get from having the connectors suited makes playing them that much stronger.

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