|
arborman
|
10-05-2007, 09:38 PM
Post subject: Hermann's Hand
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
|
|
So I'm in the middle of what has been a somewhat spewy day so far, one of those days when the big broadway never hits, the big blind hits bottom two pairs against your unimproved aces. You all know the fun.
Nevertheless, I found myself sitting to the left of Hermann a few minutes ago. My cards were to weak to call the utg raise, but I suspect he had something good. Any guesses? Care to fill us in Hermann?
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T , 8.
UTG (poster) raises, UTG+1 (Hermann The Lombard)/ calls, 3 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.
Flop: (8.40 SB) 2, 6 , K (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hermann The Lombard raises, CO folds, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Hermann The Lombard calls, BB calls.
Turn: (8.70 BB) J (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hermann The Lombard calls, BB folds.
River: (10.70 BB) Q (2 players)
UTG bets, Hermann The Lombard raises, UTG folds.
Final Pot: 12.70 BB
My guess based on the play is that he had either KQ or KJ of clubs, or possible spades. Possible AhTh as well.
Edited to add: No obligation HTL, you play your own game. But it looked like a very well played hand.
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
A J and he misplayed the flop.
|
|
|
|
arborman
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
|
|
Raising the flop with 12 outs to the nuts wouldn't be a misplay IMO. Even if he got reraised.
|
|
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
|
|
4h5h obv then
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by arborman
Raising the flop with 12 outs to the nuts wouldn't be a misplay IMO. Even if he got reraised.
|
It discourages the plaerys behind him from drawing to second best hands. Short handed players tend not to fold as much and we would rather exploit this than take a shot at getting this heads-up on the flop. If everyone else missed, you still have a good chance of getting this heads-up. If someone raises behind you it will improve your relative position. Finally, by not always jamming the flop with a nut flush draw you mix up your play a bit.
|
|
|
|
Hermann the Lombard
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
A J and he misplayed the flop. |
Oh, Fnord, you have so little faith in me. Of course given some of the hands I've posted...
Absolute full credit to arborman. I had :Kd: :Qs: so I think I played it very ABC and perhaps a bit timidly. Comments?
What I want to know is what UTG folded! My guesses would be something like AA, AK, AJ, JJ, maybe TT. If it was AA I don't know if he would have folded. OTOH my notes suggest that he could have had rather little: he 3-bet a flop of Q95 (all diamonds) with 92o (no diamonds), he then bet the turn when a 2 hit, then bet & 3-bet river with a 4th diamond falling;he also had *another* early hand where he did a PFR, raised flop bet turn and folded to my river raise, possibly a bluff.
I had a strange session with about double my recent VP$IP numbers but (except for that hand) I couldn't flop a dead fish. Actually I had four plus hands and seven minus (-1 BB or more).
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard
I had :Kd :Qs so I think I played it very ABC and perhaps a bit timidly. Comments?
|
If UTG raised his own post, this is an easy 3-bet. If he's a really loose open-raiser I probably still would 3-bet. Calling pre-flop is pretty terrible and you should fold here to a lot of the tigher and passive sorts of players.
|
|
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
|
|
yea, I mean, I saw KQo coming....
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
yea, I mean, I saw KQo coming....
|
I should have considered KQs. Calling with KQo here is so bad that I ruled it out...
|
|
|
|
Hermann the Lombard
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
|
|
Ah, well, not quite as brutal as they are over at 2+2. I am here to learn, you know. I'd appreciate if you'd elaborate a bit on *why* it's pretty terrible and so bad. It could save me some money and pride.
|
|
Oh, no! Not another learning experience!
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
|
|
Determine a range for someone raising UTG and then calculate KQo equity against that range.
|
|
|
|
arborman
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 300
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard
Ah, well, not quite as brutal as they are over at 2+2. I am here to learn, you know. I'd appreciate if you'd elaborate a bit on *why* it's pretty terrible and so bad. It could save me some money and pride.
|
I actually assumed you had KQs because you called the raise preflop. Knowing that you have read SSHE, in which he is pretty strongly against calling with unsuited high cards. Calling a UTG raise, even against an otherwise idiotic player, just doesn't pay often enough to call, especially in early position.
Reasonable cold calling hands (in reasonable position) - AJs, KQs, and in rare cases KJs. Anything better and it's a raise, anything less (and unsuited) and it's a fold.
|
|
|
|
Hermann the Lombard
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
|
|
Thank you, gentlemen.
|
|
|
|
salsa4ever
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Determine a range for someone raising UTG and then calculate KQo equity against that range.
|
here utg posted one spot away from the big blind. based on this alone, I put him on any 2 suited or bigger than 6. I like to reraise here.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
|
|
|
Jibalob
|
|
Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Out of my roll
Posts: 512
|
|
I would have 3-bet the dead poster preflop given the notes you have on him.
Edit: ignore the above, I've just realised this is a full ring hand, fold should be the only thing going through your mind preflop.
|
|
PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]
|
|
bigspenda73
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by salsa4ever
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Determine a range for someone raising UTG and then calculate KQo equity against that range.
|
here utg posted one spot away from the big blind. based on this alone, I put him on any 2 suited or bigger than 6. I like to reraise here. |
Meh, not at .02/.04 whch are the stakes these guys play I believe.
|
|
|
|
Hermann the Lombard
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
|
|
.05/.10 so close enough!
(meaning close enough to .02/.04)
|
|
|
|
DrivingDog
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
|
|
Preflop play is raise or fold. i'd prolly fold but it's close.
Nice raise on the river HTL...
|
|
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
