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Help me save some bets with TT!!

  
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 10-18-2005, 04:05 PM     Post subject: Help me save some bets with TT!! #1 (permalink)  
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 I'm trying to see if I can save/win some more bets on this nasty run of TT hands. I'm 3/20 winrate right now...not good. I'll post the hands now and then give my own analysis later. Thanks.


Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T, T.
3 folds, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) K, 8, A (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB raises, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 3 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Results in white below:
No showdown. SB wins 8 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
3 folds, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 9, 8, 5 (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 4 (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP2 calls.

River: (11 BB) 4 (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB raises, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

Results in white below:
SB has Ad 4d (three of a kind, fours).
Hero has Th Tc (two pair, tens and fours).
Outcome: SB wins 15 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T, T.
Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A, 4, J (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.25 BB) K (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Td Th (one pair, tens).
CO has Ah 5h (two pair, aces and fives).
Outcome: CO wins 8.25 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T, T.
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 4 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 8, 5, J (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Th Ts (two pair, jacks and tens).
MP3 has Kh Jh (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: MP3 wins 8.75 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
1 fold, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, MP calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 4, 5, Q (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets, MP raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 8 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.75 BB) K [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
MP bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Results in white below:
MP has 5s Qc (two pair, queens and fives).
Hero has Td Th (one pair, tens).
Outcome: MP wins 7.75 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T, T.
UTG raises, 4 folds, MP3 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 6, J, A (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP3 bets, Hero folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

Results in white below:
No showdown. MP3 wins 6.50 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T, T.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, Button caps, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) J, 8, 4 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (10.75 BB) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Tc Ts (one pair, tens).
Button has Ad Ac (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Button wins 12.75 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with T, T.
3 folds, MP2 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 9, 7, J (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 5 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.75 BB) A (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Results in white below:
MP2 has 5h Ah (two pair, aces and fives).
Hero has Ts Tc (one pair, tens).
Outcome: MP2 wins 6.75 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
4 folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A, 5, 4 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 6 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.75 BB) 9 (2 players)
CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Results in white below:
CO has Ac Ks (one pair, aces).
Hero has Ts Td (one pair, tens).
Outcome: CO wins 6.75 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T, T.
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP2 3-bets, 1 fold, CO caps, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (17 SB) K, 3, 8 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) A (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, SB folds, Hero folds, MP2 calls.

River: (12.50 BB) A (2 players)
MP2 checks, CO bets, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Results in white below:
MP2 has Jh Jc (two pair, aces and jacks).
CO has Ad Kd (full house, aces full of kings).
Outcome: CO wins 14.50 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T, T. CO posts a blind of $30.
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, 4 folds, CO (poster) calls, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 3, 5, Q (3 players)
UTG checks, [color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], CO raises, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 4 (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, CO bets, UTG calls, Hero folds.

River: (10.25 BB) 8 (2 players)
UTG checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

Results in white below:
UTG has As Kc (high card, ace).
CO has Kh Ad (high card, ace).
Outcome: CO wins 5.12 BB. UTG wins 5.12 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) Q, J, 4 (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets, BB raises, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 7 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

Results in white below:
No showdown. BB wins 6.25 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with T, T.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 2, K, 2 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 9 (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) Q (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Results in white below:
UTG+1 has 9c 9s (full house, nines full of twos).
Hero has Td Th (two pair, tens and twos).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 10.75 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
5 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 2, A, 3 (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Results in white below:
SB has 5s Ad (two pair, aces and kings).
Hero has Tc Ts (two pair, kings and tens).
Outcome: SB wins 4.50 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T, T.
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP3 3-bets, 3 folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 2, A, 2 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (4.75 BB) Q (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, BB calls, Hero folds.

River: (6.75 BB) 5 (2 players)
BB bets, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Results in white below:
BB has 5d 5c (full house, fives full of twos).
MP3 has Kd Kc (two pair, kings and twos).
Outcome: BB wins 8.75 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T, T.
3 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 7, 7, A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) A (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (10.50 BB) J (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Results in white below:
SB has As Jh (full house, aces full of jacks).
Hero has Ts Td (two pair, aces and tens).
Outcome: SB wins 12.50 BB.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T, T. CO posts a blind of $30.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 7, Q, 6 (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) Q (2 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 calls.

River: (7.75 BB) J (2 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Results in white below:
MP1 doesn't show.
Outcome: MP1 wins 8.75 BB.


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elipsesjeff
Old 10-18-2005, 05:39 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Here's my analysis, let me know if you agree/disagree:

H1:Played it fine.
H2: Played it fine.
H3: Case could be made to fold the turn without a read, either way I'm not calling a river bet. (Save 1 Bet)
H4:I don't think its that bad, probably couldn't have saved any money short of folding the turn, but when the jack paired that decreased the likily hood of him having it. If i'm see a showdown I probably should have bet/fold the river.
H5: He obviously missed a turn check/raise on me (which I saw straight through), nobody checkraises the flop and checks the turn without a made hand. The size of the pot could have warranted a fold by me on the river (save 1 bet).
H6: This is pretty standard I believe, as it is highly likely one of these two could have had the ace. With no read, MP3 could have had an underpair. Should I cap preflop and lead the flop?
H7: This line is similar to H6 line, although I think button plays AK the same way. I wasn't surprised to see AA though. How many could fold the turn here? (save 2 bets, max)
H8: My own play worked against me here, although it has saved many bets too. That being said, if he's raising A5s preflop, calling for one bet on the flop unimproved, he's most likely calling for one bet on the turn and will even more likely not give me a free showdown.
H9: Villain missed another turn check/raise, so far thats 2 they've whiffed on in this series of hands alone. I dont think my line here is all that bad, although any card other than an Ace on the flop I probably lead the turn too.
H10: Getting 21-1 to see the turn its not a bad play, but once the Ace hits I'm ead in the water. Good play by me.
H11: With a bet and an overcall how can i see a river card here? I dont remember this hand, although if I did i'd be sure I'd be mad I folded a winner.
h12: Cold caling button likely has KQ,KJ, KT, or even AJ, etc. I dont want to get invovled and if I ahead its only slightly.
H13: I probably could have folded the river here. (save 1 bet)
H14: Meh. Cap preflop?
H15: Played it good.
H16: Capped it this time preflop, although once the second ace hit I should have folded (save 2 bets)
H17: is this too weak/tight?


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Room
Old 10-18-2005, 05:52 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Room
Most of those hands are some terrible plays by the villans. I would probably jot down a few notes on some of these LAGgy players and sit next to them, on their left of course.

TT feels like it is right on the cusp of a hard hand to play against tricky opponents, esp when out of position. There are plenty of overs that will be hitting the flop and will force us to slow down to aggression from players acting after us. We also have very little chance to improve unless we flop very well. I would play most of those hands just as you did.
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A'aag
Old 10-18-2005, 06:09 PM #4 (permalink)  
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A'aag
I'll take a shot:

Hand 1: No one likes to bet/fold the flop, but if you think you're behind how can you call?
Hand 2: Nothing you can do.
Hand 3: Again, if you think you're behind you can't call the raise.
Hand 4: I probably call this down too. I've been seeing a lot of the coldcall, raise any flop line lately.
Hand 5: Another spot where you can't call if you think you're behind, but this looks more like a move. Turn is weird.
Hand 6: I think I get away preflop. What is the blind structure @ 30/60?
Hand 7: Yeah. Pot is too big. Need a read on Button.
Hand 8: I always bet this turn.
Hand 9: On this one, I'm torn between betting for a cheap showdown and checking to get him to bluff the river.
Hand 10: This one is a pot odds exercise and I think you played it exactly right.
Hand 11: I wish I didn't look at the results. I don't see how you can overcall the turn, altough CO is obviously a goofball and UTG looks like a draw so meh. I guess that's why you can overcall the turn...
Hand 12: I like calling this c/r only because of the backdoor draw. I don't like doing this if I think I only have 2 outs.
Hand 13: I hate these spots. I could go fold or calldown, and it's the read that tips it.

Man there are a lot of these...

Hand 14: I play it the same.
Hand 15: Yeah.
Hand 16: I would call down after the flop c/r.
Hand 17: I'd probably lead the flop since I've got the preflop aggressor on my left and go from there.

I'm pretty sure I can't help you- I'm really just curious to see where I'm wrong.

edit: you should label the hands in the original post
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STIdrivr
Old 10-18-2005, 06:12 PM #5 (permalink)  
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maybe you should play TT for set value in low stake limit holdem, i only play NL so i dont know. With more people in the hand and being able to draw at overs or try to hit 2 pair for cheap it may be better
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jmontis
Old 10-18-2005, 06:33 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I usually tread lightly against 2 overcards with TT or lower.

If the game is good, you don't really have to bash your head against the wall with these hands
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
 
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Fnord
Old 10-18-2005, 07:37 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: SB's check/raise is at least Kx with another player in the pot. It's now 13sb and heads/up, I woudln't draw to my 2 outer.
Hand 2: Looks good to me. What's the chances this particular player makes this raise with a worse hand?
Hand 3: I don't get the turn call. That would be very opponent dependent.
Hand 4: I play it the same without a read.
Hand 5: I play it the same without a read.
Hand 6: Pre-flop might be close. Out of position + taking it 3way for 2.5sb. Think your over-pair is good here often?
Hand 7: Buttons cold cap range?
Hand 8: Bet that turn more often than not.
Hand 9: Fine
Hand 10: Once again, I wonder about the flop call...
Hand 11: Once again, I wonder about the flop call...
Hand 12: Once again, I wonder about the flop call...
Hand 13: How often do you think you're good after that opponent makes that move?
Hand 14: Well played
Hand 15: Well played
Hand 16: Got a read? I'm done after he c/r/caps if I'm 3-betting this flop.
Hand 17: I need player reads to continue past the flop here.
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elipsesjeff
Old 10-18-2005, 08:17 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Hand 1: SB's check/raise is at least Kx with another player in the pot. It's now 13sb and heads/up, I woudln't draw to my 2 outer.
To get technical, its 3-3.5 outs with a runner runner draw. Even still, you dont call the flop raise for 1 SB? Interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnord
Hand 6: Pre-flop might be close. Out of position + taking it 3way for 2.5sb. Think your over-pair is good here often?
so you fold here preflop? I think Capping it may be a better line than just calling, with folding inbetween...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnord
Hand 8: Bet that turn more often than not.
You have to fold to a check/raise though, and with an overcard on the board I really want to see a cheap showdown. I also have the option of value betting river if he checks to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnord
Hand 10: Once again, I wonder about the flop call...
Hand 11: Once again, I wonder about the flop call...
Hand 12: Once again, I wonder about the flop call...
So you auto fold this flop with one overcard facing a flop raise? In my experience the flop check/raise is a weak hand trying to protect itself. On the other hand, if that were the case a 3 bet would be in line with position...


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elipsesjeff
Old 10-18-2005, 08:18 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STIdrivr
maybe you should play TT for set value in low stake limit holdem, i only play NL so i dont know.
Its not low stake hold'em. Its mid-high...(wheres that forum!)


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elipsesjeff
Old 10-18-2005, 08:20 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A'aag
Hand 6: I think I get away preflop. What is the blind structure @ 30/60?
Blind Structure is 1/2...


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Fnord
Old 10-18-2005, 08:30 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Hand 1: SB's check/raise is at least Kx with another player in the pot. It's now 13sb and heads/up, I woudln't draw to my 2 outer.
To get technical, its 3-3.5 outs with a runner runner draw. Even still, you dont call the flop raise for 1 SB? Interesting.
Do the math, but runner-runner-straight is at best 1 out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnord
Hand 6: Pre-flop might be close. Out of position + taking it 3way for 2.5sb. Think your over-pair is good here often?
so you fold here preflop? I think Capping it may be a better line than just calling, with folding inbetween...
What range does that 3-bet represent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnord
Hand 8: Bet that turn more often than not.
You have to fold to a check/raise though, and with an overcard on the board I really want to see a cheap showdown. I also have the option of value betting river if he checks to me.
...but you miss bets he would have called to draw or even given him a free card if he would check/fold something like Ax. You're also making it correct to make loose flop calls against you. Folding to a turn c/r only sucks when you give up a bunch of outs (like 6ish) or laydown the best hand to an aggressive opponent. Suck it up and bet more often than not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnord
Hand 10: Once again, I wonder about the flop call...
Hand 11: Once again, I wonder about the flop call...
Hand 12: Once again, I wonder about the flop call...
So you auto fold this flop with one overcard facing a flop raise? In my experience the flop check/raise is a weak hand trying to protect itself. On the other hand, if that were the case a 3 bet would be in line with position...
Know your player. Top pair type hands like getting in bets (that you've shown you'll call) when they're ahead.
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A'aag
Old 10-18-2005, 08:37 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by A'aag
Hand 6: I think I get away preflop. What is the blind structure @ 30/60?
Blind Structure is 1/2...
Yeah, now that I think about it that doesn't make too much difference here anyway. You're getting 2.6:1. It's likely you need a set to win (although not certain), so I think this is a fold.
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elipsesjeff
Old 10-18-2005, 09:02 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:

What range does that 3-bet represent?
What are you 3 betting with here? If you think about the likely range of hands these guys have, the guys collectivly could have anything from 66-AA or K8-AK. The first guy's raise could very well be an aggressive blind steal, the second guy's raise could very likely be an isolation attempt with a lower PP. I think capping here is a better line then leading the flop, hoping they are scared of the Ace. But I fold to any aggression post flop.

Quote:
Know your player. Top pair type hands like getting in bets (that you've shown you'll call) when they're ahead.
folding too often for one bet on the flop would be criminal, in that all thinking opponents could correctly bluff raise. I usually mix this line in with a turn check/raise when I do hit so sometimes I have a hand and sometimes I dont, either way I'm checking to them on the turn. A lot of times AK raises here just for the free turn card...


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elipsesjeff
Old 10-18-2005, 09:11 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:

What range does that 3-bet represent?
What are you 3 betting with here? If you think about the likely range of hands these guys have, the guys collectivly could have anything from 66-AA or K8-AK. The first guy's raise could very well be an aggressive blind steal, the second guy's raise could very likely be an isolation attempt with a lower PP. I think capping here is a better line then leading the flop, hoping they are scared of the Ace. But I fold to any aggression post flop.

Quote:
Know your player. Top pair type hands like getting in bets (that you've shown you'll call) when they're ahead.
folding too often for one bet on the flop would be criminal, in that all thinking opponents could correctly bluff raise. I usually mix this line in with a turn check/raise when I do hit so sometimes I have a hand and sometimes I dont, either way I'm checking to them on the turn. A lot of times AK raises here just for the free turn card...
Link at 2+2 about folding for one bet...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...fpart=all&vc=1

Semi-related to this material. Still a good thread none the less.


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Demiparadigm
Old 10-19-2005, 04:58 AM #15 (permalink)  
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While I almost never fold for one bet on the flop, I think you are misapplying the concept.
I do not believe it is ever correct to call a bet on the flop with a pocket pair with the intention of folding the turn unimproved getting less than 15 to 1. You have a 2 out draw (20 to 1) and calling is giving up bets.
calling with middle pair is much better, since you have more outs to improve.
I do not believe that at this level, letting your opponent know you are capable of folding to a checkraise is in anyway a bad thing, since you will be correctly calling the majority of the time.
Many of these players' main leak is being too aggressive, and getting them to bluff more often out of position can only help your bottom line.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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Old 10-19-2005, 05:02 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by STIdrivr
maybe you should play TT for set value in low stake limit holdem, i only play NL so i dont know.
Its not low stake hold'em. Its mid-high...(wheres that forum!)
and this is the reason we requested it! 30/60 is not ABC boys
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elipsesjeff
Old 10-19-2005, 07:44 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
While I almost never fold for one bet on the flop, I think you are misapplying the concept.
I think you mean after you raise preflop...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi
I do not believe that at this level, letting your opponent know you are capable of folding to a checkraise is in anyway a bad thing, since you will be correctly calling the majority of the time.
Many of these players' main leak is being too aggressive, and getting them to bluff more often out of position can only help your bottom line.
Any information is bad information given up. You will be playing hundreds if not thousands of hands against single opponents where they are watching your betting patterns. Folding for one bet on the flop when you have nothing will only give away information when you do call/reraise. But, i'm not always advocating seeing the turn either.


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Demiparadigm
Old 10-19-2005, 10:20 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff
Any information is bad information given up. You will be playing hundreds if not thousands of hands against single opponents where they are watching your betting patterns. Folding for one bet on the flop when you have nothing will only give away information when you do call/reraise. But, i'm not always advocating seeing the turn either.
I agree to an extent.
However: You could just call every hand to the river, and give away no information about your hand. (and you would never fold a hand that would have won!)
Unfortunately, we are playing this game to win money, and there are times when we should fold or raise despite the fact that it gives our opponents information about what we hold.
Game theory states that in close situations you should choose randomly between calling and folding so our actions are not exploitable.
However, calling a bet on a draw with bad odds is not close, and is giving away chips.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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