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help with an elementary situation that happens very often

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pokerlearner

02-08-2006, 08:01 PM Post subject: help with an elementary situation that happens very often

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

I play 1-2 limit online, and 4-8, 9-18 limit live.

I have this situation come up, time after time again and i was having doubts over my play. I just want to know what the optimal play here is. I realise its a situational game and so it should be dicated by reads but still if you can give any generic advice would really appreciate it.

This has to do with the raise on the river or check-raise on the river with this specific situation.

Say i raise preflop with KK or AA or QQ.

Preflop: hero raises preflop with AA, KK, QQ etc.

Flop: all disconnected undercards.
Hero bets, 1-3 people call

Turn: another undercard, also disconnected.

Hero bets, 1 person calls

River: Top card on the flop pairs.
Hero bets, villain raises.......or Hero bets, villain checkraises.

1) do you pay it off here or do you not ?

Assume the board doesnt have four flush cards or four running straight cards (in which case i would have check called anyways)

I dont like to fold HU on the river leading throughout the way.

2) Is my river bet a value bet ? when villain raises, should i automatically assume that the villain had top pair on flop.

3) i have better control of this situation in live games because you know a lot of personal traits...so depending on good read such as a non tricky player i fold, a good/tricky player i call.

in live, most of the times i have a very good tight table image and i have been raised on the card pairing on the river and the villain was bluffing and i called and won. but online i am seeing that rarely they raise wihtout the trips. maybe this is a "small sample" syndrome and remembering only my beats.

i just want to get this basic thing right.

thanks.

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Xanadu

02-09-2006, 12:13 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

Usually you have to pay them off. There are a few people who simply will never raise without 2pair or better. If you can identify them, you can fold. Problem is you usually don't have enough sample of someone's play to really know.

On average, I would say you will make more than you lose looking them up. A lot of people will slow play their smaller overpair and just be giving you an extra bet. Some people have 2pair and don't realize they just got counterfeited. Most people will bluff at least occassionally here, and some people raise apparantly because they feel like it.

Another reason to call is that if you bet and fold too much even passive players will take these shots at you.

Demiparadigm

02-09-2006, 01:00 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Party 6 max

Posts: 1,602

How often do you think they would raise with a hand that you beat? only 10% of the time maybe? How big is the pot? It was raised preflop with multiple callers. There were bets on each street. The pot is probably bigger than 10 big bets.
If you are being laid more than 10 to 1, and you will win more than 10% of the time, then this is an obvious call, right?

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

pokerlearner

02-09-2006, 07:03 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

Thanks Xanadu and Demi. Yes in live it is DEFINITELY bigger than 10 bb most of the time. Online it is almost 10 bb so both of your analysis will be helpful to me in the future. thanks.

especially in 9-18 and 6-12, there are some aggro guys who love to raise on that spots.

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help with an elementary situation that happens very often

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