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Help with ATs

  
 
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Shark Bait
Old 09-03-2006, 08:02 PM     Post subject: Help with ATs #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 481
Shark Bait
So I sort to see which hand is losing me the most in BB/100 and I'm shocked to see it's ATs over the last 30k hands. I've seen KQo in that spot before, but that was understandable since KQo is terrible and loses to AK and AQ about 103% of the time.

Not sure if this helps.



I can post some hands, but without looking at every time I was dealt it, I don't know how helpful it would be. It's also odd because I'm in the green with ATo.

well I did find some "questionable" ones. Let me know what you think.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

hand 1:
Preflop: Hero is CO with A, T.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 8, 3, 2 (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 6 (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5.70 BB

hand 2: MP2 is 18/12.4/4.15
PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T, A.
3 folds, MP2 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6, 3, 6 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5 BB

hand 3: SB is 42/9.7/0.99 and CO is 21/10.9/2.17
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T, A.
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, CO 3-bets, 1 fold, SB caps, 1 fold, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 6, A, 5 (3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, CO raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 4 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, SB calls, Hero folds.

River: (11.50 BB) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB
<a500lbgorilla> Limit is poker with training wheels!
 
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bigspenda73
Old 09-04-2006, 05:02 AM #2 (permalink)  
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bigspenda73 will become famous soon enoughbigspenda73 will become famous soon enough
 Hand 2: Calling a raise OOP in the SB with an easily dominated hand is not the best idea.

Hand 3: Well, you shouldve folded PF, however, you didnt, so let's analyze the hand.
Your getting 11.5-1 to hit a 3outer on the river which could be the best hand w/out improvement. CO aggression is hi, couldn't he be donking KK? SB might have a bigger ace but you would win two more BBs off of them making it 13.5:1 to call. 3 good cards/43 not so good= 1:14.3 so it's marginal, add the fact that they could both be hollding 99-KK and I think you can call the turn.

BTW, I hate ATs/ATo, big loser for me as well.
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arkitekton
Old 09-04-2006, 01:14 PM #3 (permalink)  
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arkitekton
1: flop call is a little thin

2: cold call, especially out of position, is extremely thin. You're at the bottom end of his range, so why fight here? And why call the flop bet? You're looking at something like 3 outs, but you can't know what they are.

3: I doubt I'd call the preflop cap.

ATs and ATo are decent winners for me. I think I just give them up fairly readily... ATs is like one of your better girlfriends--in the proper light, she's very attractive. But if you want her to be model beautiful, you're bound to be disappointed
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Shark Bait
Old 09-04-2006, 06:21 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Shark Bait
The best part about hand 3 is CO had 99 and SB had A9o.

And I thought I was giving it up at the right time since someone HAD to have AJ, AQ or AK. I think the hand changes a lot if I raise the flop. CO probably isn't going to 3 bet his 9's.

But the way preflop went I think 99% of the time I'm holding a worse hand than one of the players.
<a500lbgorilla> Limit is poker with training wheels!
 
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outphase
Old 09-05-2006, 02:44 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Posts: 949
outphase
hand 1: flop call isn't bad, your hand can improve with just 1 pair

hand 2: not as good, preflop, you want to still 3 bet or fold in the SB

hand 3: if you're calling the cap, you're looking for a broadway or a flush
Quote:
Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
 
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arkitekton
Old 09-05-2006, 05:47 AM #6 (permalink)  
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arkitekton
Quote:
"The best part about hand 3 is CO had 99 and SB had A9o."
Guess I'm not too surprised given some of the betting I saw last night at my tables ((**gags**)). I do think you gave yourself the worst of all possible worlds, in the sense that if you're going to call the cap, you don't want to be folding after an Ace hits on an otherwise nonthreatening flop. By folding, you're essentially saying, preflop, that you need a ten (and two other acceptable cards), two pair, or two or more clubs to come on the flop--given the times you'll still lose when these happy things happen, this doesn't seem odds on.

Quote:
Hand 3: Well, you shouldve folded PF, however, you didnt, so let's analyze the hand.
Your getting 11.5-1 to hit a 3outer on the river which could be the best hand w/out improvement. CO aggression is hi, couldn't he be donking KK? SB might have a bigger ace but you would win two more BBs off of them making it 13.5:1 to call. 3 good cards/43 not so good= 1:14.3 so it's marginal, add the fact that they could both be hollding 99-KK and I think you can call the turn.
big, I don't think he's getting 11.5 to 1 on the river, since he didn't call the turn. Looks like it's more a combination turn/river decision, so his pot odds are [some number of big bets involving assumptions about dealing with possible turn and river raises] to [some number of big bets 2 or greater]...
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