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Help Again- My Small Pockets Approach??

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ArcticKnight

02-06-2005, 12:31 AM Post subject: Help Again- My Small Pockets Approach??

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

Hello

NOTE - I play 6hand LIM

Over the last 2000-3000 hands I have been playing small pockets (22 to 66) differently. Quite simply, I fold them from anywhere, except when I'm on the button and there is only one caller. I will raise from the SB if no one else has come in. Otherwise I muck.

What I found is that while I would be quite pleased seeing A-Qos or K-J, etc in most positions, I hated seeing 44 or 55 from anywhere. The propensity for players (including me) to play high cards (suited or not) in 6h LIM seemed to make my small pairs not only "unprofitable," but a big drain at times.

Here are some reasons why I decided to muck 22-66.

1. Early position not a good call anyway, as prone to being raised.

2. In later positions I'm in a paradox. I realize I will probably need trips to win, so I want more action to make this move worthwhile. On the other hand, I am vulnerable to just about any high card or over cards with four other players in the pot, so I find myself wanting LESS action.
In fact, I don't know what kind of action I want with my 55??? As such, it's hard to play the hand with confidence.

3. I can't raise from later positions for two reasons. 1. My hand is not strong enough , and 2 I'm not likely to push may players off their hand in LIM anyway.

4. With only a 7 to 1 chance of hitting trips, I find I'm hard pressed to rationalize any call.

5. Perhaps most importantly, when I hit trips I would say I have only had about 75% chance of winning, as I am prone to losses from higher trips, straights, and flushes. The money lost on those hands is usually LARGER than the pots won with trips. So money wise, it could be closer to 60/40 in my favour, even when I hit.

Anyway, since I have taken the mucking approach (yes, I sometimes mix it up), I have found the times few and far bewteen that I have regretted using this approach.

I was wondering if anyone else could share their thoughts on small pairs in 6H LIM, and how they play or don't play them.

PS. In case you are wondering, when I did play 22-66, I would not play past the flop if I missed trips, unless I had a good reason to do so. When I did procede, it tended to be a wash over time 50/50. Just thought I'd mention that hanging on to long or "always" folding was not part of the problem. I was comformtable that I was making good post flop decisions when I missed trips.

Thanks

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

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Fnord

02-06-2005, 11:00 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Similar subjects have come up at 2+2. A lot of 6 maxers noticed that 22-55 are marginal losers for them.

I've tightened up on them even in my full game.

Although a hand like 22-55 has unimproved showdown value (which can be huge short handed)

o Just about every card is a scare card, without a set you're lost
o More prone to those nasty set over set losses
o Little if any chance of flopping open ended (every edge counts...)
o Higher chance of having your pair counterfited putting a naked Ace or King in the lead.

22-55 are great for blind defense, when you just need 2 cards that don't suck or for taking down a call-happy field. However, unless you're behind 2 limpers the implied odds just aren't there or are close enough you may as well muck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Yeldud

02-06-2005, 03:02 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 149

My gneral rule for small pocket pairs (22-88) is to limp pre-flop, with the exception of 77 or 88 which I may call one raise, depending on the table and player reads.

My post flop play can best be summarized as "no set no bet". This rule, of course, has exceptions but is a good genral guide to live by. On average, I believe, you will hit a set 1 in every 7 or 8 flops and that one time will generally pay off big for you.

When I first started, I had a tough time getting away from small pocket pairs, but have since gotten better at it.

If you put all your faith in the river, you are up shit's creek

Fortune 500

02-06-2005, 05:29 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Bluffalupagus

Posts: 1,261

I really feel like you shold limp into any unraised pot with any PP. Figure you're going to hit your set 12.5 percent of the time and get paid. In a 6 handed game, you're investing ~ 17 percent of the pot, so it's a moderately losing call. Sometimes, they'll hold up unimproved, plus you'll catch some straight draws with them too, for added value. It's a borderline move, but I can't get away from them either. If someone raises, and it's reraised or called in too many spots, I figure I'm playing behind and when you factor out the unlikely scenario that they'll hold up unimproved, I lay them down.

Get your own operations graphic here:
http://operations.talkingapes.com

ArcticKnight

02-06-2005, 06:11 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

Thanks Fnord, Yeldud, and Fortune.

Fortune, keep in mind that 17% pre-flop investmest is the rare, best-case scenerio. You'd need the whole table to limp and the SB to call for 17% - very rare. (or all to call a reraise).

On average, at 6h table, it's probably closer to 25% or 33% or 50% investment any time you are looking at small pockets. So, you are putting extra pressure (faith!) on the implied odds.

Fnord, thanks for the note on counterfitted pairs...

Don't you just love it when you have 33 and the board goes 4-9-2-9 -4
your pair is nul and void you know that a weak Ace has just probably stole your pot.

Thanks again folks

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

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Help Again- My Small Pockets Approach??

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