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A'aag
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07-03-2005, 03:36 PM
Post subject: Hello my name is...
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loyal son of Rochester
Posts: 172
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A'aag. My stats are 17/9/3.1 over 37000 hands from 1/2 to 5/10.
This is my first post here, and rather than wait for some monumental hand, I'll just pick one and go:
Villain is 38/21/1.8 over 150 hands.
I don't normally play this like this, but I've been bullying the table a bit (because UB is so tight) and they're getting sick of me. So given villain's stats, I'm thinking his 3-bet, c/r flop line looks hollow. With this read, I'm pretty comfortable with my flop play (it's starting to feel like a blind steal) but the turn c/r has me concerned. So regardless of what you think of the flop, what do you do from the turn on?
Ultimate Bet 3/6 Hold'em (7 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A , J .
1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.
Flop: (6.33 SB) 4, 4, 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.
Turn: (6.16 BB) 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.
River: (10.16 BB) 6 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 12.16 BB
Results in white below:
BB has As 9s (two pair, nines and fours).
Hero has Ad Js (one pair, fours).
Outcome: BB wins 12.16 BB.
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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I like the flop 3-bet, because the flop was very unlikely to have helped his hand any so you probably have him beat with a small chance of being up vs a small pair where you have 6 outs. Once he raises the turn though, I'm going to definately give him credit for having a real hand and fold it right there. His postflop aggression of 1.8 doesn't look high enough for him to be capable of carrying on a straight bluff into the turn like that. BTW, it might be a good idea to not post the results of the hand, so people can't give feedback based on them  Also, welcome to the board!
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A'aag
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loyal son of Rochester
Posts: 172
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nehmer
Once he raises the turn though, I'm going to definately give him credit for having a real hand and fold it right there. His postflop aggression of 1.8 doesn't look high enough for him to be capable of carrying on a straight bluff into the turn like that.
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I'll buy that. I was planning on taking a free showdown with that turn bet, and when he raised I thought, "Well, the pot is getting big, I'll try to hit my overs." Then comes the river where I'm thinking, "Well, the pot is a little bigger now, so..."
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Overplayed.
After the flop raise I just call this down. Why give him a chance to fold or slowdown if we have him beat? We also don't want to give him a chance to put in an extra bet if he's ahead.
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A'aag
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loyal son of Rochester
Posts: 172
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Good point. Like I said, this started to feel like a blind steal, and that's an area of my game where I am sometimes not sure what to do. I am getting used to calling down with ace high when I think the time is right- something I would almost never do 6 months ago.
His preflop/flop line is something I don't see very often. Does anyone see this a lot, and what does it usually mean?
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Room
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 197
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I probably wouldn't 3-bet the flop here with AJo on this board, but since you did, I'd check the turn and call a river if you want to showdown.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Fold to the turn check raise.
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Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Fold to the turn check raise.
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Random question...
Do you feel it's better to deal with aggro players/situations by fighting fire with fire or by just being more inclined to call down in spots like this? I guess I just don't like playing guessing games against unknown online players...
For what it's worth, both approaches have their merits...
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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I tend to play more tight agressive against agressive opponents. Fold more, raise more. I think it is greater EV over the long run.
By folding more often you have them betting more agressively with weaker hands.
By raising more often you are getting paid more when you have the best of it.
There is nothing greater than getting in a raising war when you hold the nuts.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
I tend to play more tight agressive against agressive opponents. Fold more, raise more. I think it is greater EV over the long run.
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Mike Caro and Tommy A would both likely disagree.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
By folding more often you have them betting more agressively with weaker hands.
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Which is pretty good poker against an opponent who folds a lot. I like to encourage my opponents to make mistakes and punish them harshly for the mistakes they tend to repeat.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
By raising more often you are getting paid more when you have the best of it.
There is nothing greater than getting in a raising war when you hold the nuts.
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There are aggro players who won't lay it down, pay you off with all sorts of stuff and see lots of rivers. However, as we move higher up the food chain those raises cost you money as it causes worse hands to fold when they would have fired out again on the next betting round. Additionally, it opens the door for him to 3-bet you when he really does have it making you pay 2 bets for the chance to suck back out on him.
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A'aag
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loyal son of Rochester
Posts: 172
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Do you feel it's better to deal with aggro players/situations by fighting fire with fire or by just being more inclined to call down in spots like this?
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If by aggro you mean LAggro, then this discussion has convinced me that calling down can be much better. I think the flamethrower tactic I tried in this hand is probably more useful against a thinking TAggro, if at all.
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