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G_host
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03-27-2005, 07:19 PM
Post subject: Having one of those days
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 227
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When it feels your a fish and are hunting without the odds and missing out on bets on the river when you are ahead...
Was this one played right? Sould you have taken the free card? Or bluffed the river? The villans are fishes... and maybe me too....
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is Button with T , A.
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.
Flop: (6 SB) J, 5, 8 (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.
Turn: (7.50 BB) 9 (4 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls.
River: (10.50 BB) 5 (3 players)
SB checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.
Final Pot: 10.50 BB
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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you're only chance is to put another in at the river; and it's not that bad a chance, since opps checked to you.
i don't know why you'd bet that turn, unless you were setting up a river bet for the pot.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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hmmm...open ended straight flush draw, with 3 more outs to top pair. this is a very easy value bet on the turn.
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G_host
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 227
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That's what I thought too... With so many out you really want to build the pot or?
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
i don't know why you'd bet that turn
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how about 9 outs to the nut flush plus 6 outs to a straight, or 15 outs to a winning hand? he needs merely 2:1 pot odds to make it a profitable draw. the pot is laying him 7.5:1 and he has 3 opponents, so it's more like 10:1 pot odds. that is an incredible overlay. if presented with the same situation 3 times in a row, he will miss 2 times out of 3 but make TONS of money on the 1 time in 3 when he hits. bottom line, he needs to bet out that turn and cap it if possible.
ChezJ
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G_host
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 227
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Well last night was a night when it missed 3 out of three so I started feeling like a fish 
Oh MP3 had Q5o and took home the pot on this one...
*sigh* Had a fash playing 95% of the hands yesterday and still making more money than me. But that was yesterday
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Room
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 197
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Nice hand man. Perfectly played. No need for the free card, you have plenty of outs. And with the board pairing, you definately can't bet this river.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
you're only chance is to put another in at the river; and it's not that bad a chance, since opps checked to you.
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His Ace beats most of the hands they're folding on the river. Check behind and expect to win this some % of the time.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
you're only chance is to put another in at the river; and it's not that bad a chance, since opps checked to you.
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His Ace beats most of the hands they're folding on the river. Check behind and expect to win this some % of the time. |
Yup.
I would only bet out here if it was headsup and I think one bet would make him fold. Secondly, with more than one opponent here, you are only going to get called by hands that are better than yours.
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G_host
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 227
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Oh well then I wasn't too fishy. Coulda posted a number of these hands from the last days but I just have to write it off as variance..the bad kind... Very bad kind, over 100bb down the last week and biggest losers has been AA and KK. Think I won one hand with those and it was when everyone folded on the turn.
Hope it swings the other way soon, otherwise I'm gonna start floding this forum with more of these posts
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LockLow34
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 266
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Only flaw I can see is perhaps raising pf on the button with ATs.
One thing you need to find out about your opponents is, if they fold, when they fold. Some players will take the turn and fold to a bet if they don't improve. Others fold the river if they don't help their hands. If I was in with 2 "river folders," I'd have bet out one more time to see if I could induce them both to fold. With 10.5-1 odds you only need the play to work once out of 5 times to show a profit. Not to mention if you DO get called and they see you've bluffed the river your value bets in the same situation will get more calls.
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"How deep is the money?" - Fnord
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eeeee
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 906
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So no one raises with ATs on the button in an unraised pot? I obviously don't play limit, because it looks juicy to me.
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I'm a know-it-all.
No, really.
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G_host
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 227
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LockLow34
Only flaw I can see is perhaps raising pf on the button with ATs.
One thing you need to find out about your opponents is, if they fold, when they fold. Some players will take the turn and fold to a bet if they don't improve. Others fold the river if they don't help their hands. If I was in with 2 "river folders," I'd have bet out one more time to see if I could induce them both to fold. With 10.5-1 odds you only need the play to work once out of 5 times to show a profit. Not to mention if you DO get called and they see you've bluffed the river your value bets in the same situation will get more calls.
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I knew that they wouldn't fold, seen them calling down with king high only so I felt I was only giving them more money if I had bet the river. The way they played they called down with bottom pair almost regardless what came up on the turn and river. Profitable if the poker gods smiles on you. But that night every draw I had went down the drain....
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eeeee
So no one raises with ATs on the button in an unraised pot? I obviously don't play limit, because it looks juicy to me.
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I would normally do it on these kind off table but the position plus the bad luck I had with drawing good cards that session really put a damper on my aggression. A raise wouldn't get anyone to fold at this table and when I seen my AA, AKo etc go down the drain against A3o stuff I kind off get too passive because I don't want to go into full tilt mode.. Hehe so I get into weak mode instead...
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by G_host
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LockLow34
Only flaw I can see is perhaps raising pf on the button with ATs.
One thing you need to find out about your opponents is, if they fold, when they fold. Some players will take the turn and fold to a bet if they don't improve. Others fold the river if they don't help their hands. If I was in with 2 "river folders," I'd have bet out one more time to see if I could induce them both to fold. With 10.5-1 odds you only need the play to work once out of 5 times to show a profit. Not to mention if you DO get called and they see you've bluffed the river your value bets in the same situation will get more calls.
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I knew that they wouldn't fold, seen them calling down with king high only so I felt I was only giving them more money if I had bet the river. The way they played they called down with bottom pair almost regardless what came up on the turn and river. Profitable if the poker gods smiles on you. But that night every draw I had went down the drain....
Quote:
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Originally Posted by eeeee
So no one raises with ATs on the button in an unraised pot? I obviously don't play limit, because it looks juicy to me.
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I would normally do it on these kind off table but the position plus the bad luck I had with drawing good cards that session really put a damper on my aggression. A raise wouldn't get anyone to fold at this table and when I seen my AA, AKo etc go down the drain against A3o stuff I kind off get too passive because I don't want to go into Full Tilt mode.. Hehe so I get into weak mode instead... |
River: You have to check behind; you'll only get called by a better hand. Unless they were both also on a club draw (very unlikely), you have to give them credit for some connection to the board otherwise they not have come to the river with you. HU is a different story; in that situation you can probably bluff the river for a profit often enough to make it EV +'ve.
Pre-Flop: I think you should raise with ATs against loose limpers and to put pressure on the blinds. If I recall correctly, SSH recommeds raising with ATs from the button against limpers. Between making an A-top-pair, and the nut-flush, I believe their thinking is that this is a value bet.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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for a loose game, SSH recommends raising ATs in ALL positions including UTG.
page 76: You should not deviate from these recommendations by applying your own broad preflop concepts. You will usually be wrong. For instance, do not limp with most of the hands we recommend raising because... "I just don't think ace-ten suited is a raising hand."
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Brodie
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 95
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And I'm not sure you're actually trying to get many people to fold with a raise here. You might be able to get the blinds to fold (which would help your chances if you miss your flush but get TPTK with your ten, for example), but I doubt any of the limpers will fold to one more bet back to them. I think a raise is here is primarily for value (or for 'juicing' the pot, however you want to look at it...) and only slightly to thin the field.
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Brodie
"The present success is the hundred failures of the past."
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G_host
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 227
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That's what I normally do to,raise ATs that is, and I got to get it into my head to keep doing even on nights like that one. But as I said after getting robbed on the river the last five hands by Q5o or some other nice hand I have this BAD habit of getting passive that I need to work on.
That's for all the feedback on this little hand guys.
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Room
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 197
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by G_host
That's what I normally do to,raise ATs that is, and I got to get it into my head to keep doing even on nights like that one. But as I said after getting robbed on the river the last five hands by Q5o or some other nice hand I have this BAD habit of getting passive that I need to work on.
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DONT DO THAT! You just perfectly defined TILT!!
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G_host
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 227
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I know
So today I took a deep breath and went aggressive again. And wow I'm back again, my first green session after a 150bb downswing. Today things where a bit more normal, some flushdraw came through. The AA,KK held against 64o etc... Still had a hand or two I should post and might do that later. Right now I'm gonna kick back and enjoy the feeling
And oh yes raised my only ATs today, two callers both Loose players. FLop came T85 rainbow. Bet got one called and yes he beats me with a Q2o, he got his Q at the turn. Guess ATs really isn't my hand *lol*
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