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Have a look at this. Suited Ace.

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Damian

09-21-2006, 10:45 AM Post subject: Have a look at this. Suited Ace.

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Manchester UK

Posts: 24

Here's a hand played out last night. My screen name is Dammen. I've been dealt a suited Ace.

I'd love to hear comments, thought processes as you "play" the hand, and at what point you put my two opponents on their hands .

***** Pacific Hand History for Game 127251233 *****
$0.05/$0.1 Limit Hold'em - *** 09 20 21:10:04 2006
Table Bahia B (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 10: Tom2211 ( $2.67 )
Seat 1: dcky67 ( $23.24 )
Seat 2: TimJD1 ( $5 )
Seat 3: peterac ( $5.74 )
Seat 5: Asalin ( $5.11 )
Seat 6: Dammen ( $9.01 )
Seat 7: Graeme59 ( $8.07 )
Seat 8: lohmy ( $2.82 )
peterac posts small blind [$0.02].
Asalin posts big blind [$0.05].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Dammen [ 9d Ad ]
Dammen calls [$0.05].
Graeme59 calls [$0.05].
lohmy folds.
Tom2211 raises [$0.1].
dcky67 folds.
TimJD1 calls [$0.1].
peterac folds.
Asalin calls [$0.05].
Dammen calls [$0.05].
Graeme59 calls [$0.05].

** Dealing Flop ** [ 9c, 3h, 9h ]

Asalin checks.
Dammen bets [$0.05].
Graeme59 folds.
Tom2211 raises [$0.1].
TimJD1 calls [$0.1].
Asalin folds.
Dammen raises [$0.1].
Tom2211 raises [$0.1].
TimJD1 calls [$0.1].
Dammen calls [$0.05].

** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
Dammen bets [$0.1].
Tom2211 calls [$0.1].
TimJD1 raises [$0.2].
Dammen raises [$0.2].
Tom2211 calls [$0.2].
TimJD1 raises [$0.2].
Dammen calls [$0.1].
Tom2211 calls [$0.1].

** Dealing River ** [ 5h ]

Dammen bets [$0.1].
Tom2211 raises [$0.2].
TimJD1 raises [$0.3].
Dammen raises [$0.3].
Tom2211 calls [$0.2].
TimJD1 calls [$0.1].

Result in white below:

** Summary **
Dammen shows [ 9d Ad ].
Tom2211 shows [ Ah Qh ].
TimJD1 mucks.
Tom2211 collected [$3.46].

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kyc12

09-21-2006, 01:49 PM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2006

Posts: 89

Your play is fine until river where you should just check/call

TimDJ1 is obviously drawing to a flush here, as he raised a 3-handed flop and turn passive on the turn. So I don't think you should be aggressive on river.

The turn is more difficult to evaluate. TimDJ1 probably have something to call the flop, but unless he has 99/92/93 you have him beat. It is quite possible that he has an overpair or a 9, so capping the turn is fine.

NWNewell

09-21-2006, 02:15 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL

Posts: 283

First, Did you buy and read SSHE???

Second, we love to discuss and evaluate Hand Histories, but we hate trying to figure out the play from raw hand histories. Use FTR's Hand converter tool. You'll get many more (and faster) responses
http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php
You'll also find the link in the list on the left side of the page.

Ok, now onto the critique.

Wow, talk about hyper-agressive!

Pre-flop: I don't have too much of a problem limping from early position. But only if your table is typically having 6+ players seeing the flop and is not very aggressive preflop (and even then I tend to stick to the top end of that range A9s-A7s).

We don't like the raise behind us, but with 3 people in for two bets and a forth probably going to call after use, we are getting 9:1 odds to call the raise and see the flop after we limped... we are in decent shape. But if we don't hit big or flop a flush draw we are probably done (we won't be real happy about Aces because it is very possible that if the raiser doesn't have a better Ace, one of the other 3 might)

Flop - This is exactly what we are looking for. I don't have much of a problem at all with the way this is played. The only hand that beats you right now is 33 or 93.

Turn - I am a little nervous now. Not that I'm folding by any means. But I'm really not sure why one oppoenent is raising, and the other is re-raising this board. I can guess that one might be pumping a flush draw, but what sensable hand would the third opponent re-raise with? 33, 22, 93, 92? Possibly slowplaying a weaker 9, not full house. Maybe and overpair (but with all the action on the flop, he can't be excited enough about his overpair to 3-bet). I'm still playing because all of these hands should have been folded by TimJD1 and not raised by Tom2211 preflop. So, giving them credit for the types of hands that can beat you is tough (a lot many players at 5/10cent are rediculous, so making correct reads is even tougher).

River - The flush card definitely scares me (as one of my assumtions for what my opponents could be pushing with is a flush draw). However, with 23BB in the pot by the river I would have to call. Just call, not raise! He is not going to have the flush, and you are going to win this pot way more than the 5% of the time you need to make it profitable. I would call the raises too (but not raise my self as I want to show down as cheap as they will let me). The flush scares me, but the way the were pushing the whole way, I can't very certain that they have the flush. So I'm calling.

Basically, you still need to be careful not to play too many hands preflop I think. A9s is sometimes ok to limp from early, but the conditions have to be very favorable (tons of limpers, 6+, not a lot of raising and re-raising preflop). But don't be so hyper-agressive against two oppents raising back at you without the nuts.

Not sure if I would have callind A9s from early position (I would need a better read on the table than you gave). I probably won't have played the flop much differently. I would have slowed down on the turn, and especailly the river.

My "Operation Come Back" Thread: Interupted.

Damian

09-21-2006, 04:25 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Manchester UK

Posts: 24

Thanks Fellas. Good analysis as always.

NW Newell - I've ordered the book - awaiting its arrival. I'm reading Sklansky's Theory of Poker at the moment.

With regards to the hand histories - these are raw from Poker Tracker, via Hand Grabber, via Pacific Poker - and the Hand Translator doesnt recognise the data. How can I translate hands from Pacific?

NWNewell

09-21-2006, 06:11 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL

Posts: 283

Glad you ordered the book.

To be honest, TOp is a great book and you should finish it, but don't spend too much time studying it yet. I think SSHE will be far more valueble to you at this point. TOP has some serious concepts and theory (hence, then name... lol). However, it is tough for beginners to accurately apply those theories at first.

I would (and actually am proceeding with my poker education this way), read, study, live SSHE through the micro limits and up to $1/$2 & $2/$4 limits. To learn HOW to play lower limit poker well with SSHE. By this time you should have an extreemly good grasp on fundamental concepts and the appropriate stratagey. THEN I would ready and study TOP to better understand WHY this is the correct stragey and learn to expand on the concepts, stratagy, and fundamentals outlined in SSHE. I would then studdy TOP while working your way up through the $10/$20 limits. When you start playing $10/$20 limit, I would then pick up Sklansky's "Limit Hold'Em for Advanced Players". (as you can tell, I'm a big fan of Sklansky's Limit Hold'Em books).

But that's just my approach... not to say another approach is not correct.

As far as Pacific Poker's Hand Histories.... I'm not sure about that. Maybe someone else can comment.

My "Operation Come Back" Thread: Interupted.

arkitekton

09-22-2006, 03:51 AM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: canada

Posts: 269

Quote:

I would (and actually am proceeding with my poker education this way), read, study, live SSHE through the micro limits and up to $1/$2 & $2/$4 limits. To learn HOW to play lower limit poker well with SSHE.

A9s is close in value to AJo, which is an acceptable limp in games that aren't tight aggressive. I don't think you need 6 people seeing an average flop for it to be profitable.

The only other part of NWN's post I disagree with is, the extremely loose small stakes game conditions Miller describes very rarely exist--and those conditions are usually germane to his analyses.

Use only the tight (3-5 player) version of his starting hand recommendations unless the game is clearly and consistently looser. Miller's general ideas are excellent, and his explanations are consistently good, but the game at .50/$1 and up is MUCH tighter than he observes. Caveat emptor. And good luck!

NWNewell

09-22-2006, 06:18 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: Kennedy Space Center, FL

Posts: 283

arkitekton, I agree with just about everyting.

The only comment I would make is that....

A9s may be close in value to AJo. But I think A9s presents some tougher issues for beginners than AJo post flop. For example, pairing your second ranked hole card is much better (and easier for beginners to play) with AJo than A9s.

I may be wrong, but is for some reasons like that that I limp much less often with A9s, than AJo. And I would advice beginners to play that way.

My "Operation Come Back" Thread: Interupted.

Seasider

09-22-2006, 06:34 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Bangor UK

Posts: 563

I play no limit but i'm thinking something like this:

Looks down, 'oh swwwwweeeeeettttt sooted AND diamonds AND an ace'

Flop 'oh God 99 i have the NNNUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTZZZZZZZZZZZ', I might stroke my balls a bit for luck'

Turn 'F**k me now i've got all red as well, can I get a witness? I'm all in no shit this is limit I wonder if i click my mouse faster can I bet more?'

Flop: 'dam a four red board' but I still feel pretty good within myself as a person because i have the NUUTTTZZZZZZZZZZ and that is that.

I might check call river

arkitekton

09-23-2006, 03:15 AM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: canada

Posts: 269

Strange--I posted on this thread yesterday but now it's gone...

Quote:

A9s may be close in value to AJo. But I think A9s presents some tougher issues for beginners than AJo post flop. For example, pairing your second ranked hole card is much better (and easier for beginners to play) with AJo than A9s.

Good point--it had not occurred to me that checkraising and the like to protect a pair of nines on the flop is actually a fairly sophisticated play and concept.

Quote:

I may be wrong, but is for some reasons like that that I limp much less often with A9s, than AJo. And I would advice beginners to play that way.

Sensible, though in loose passive games the payoff for hitting a flush can be so large that for me it compensates for the difficult in playing second pair or weak top pair.

swiggidy

09-23-2006, 04:13 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Try this hand convertor. It reads the PokerOffice histories so I have to assume it works with PT.

http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter

Prolaznik

09-27-2006, 10:14 PM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWNewell

I agree with NWNewell, not only about the quoted part, but complete post (altough I still play low limits only).
But there is more than agreement - I think that even SSHE is too advanced for you at the moment. You should rely on Lee Jones (Winning low limit holdem) until you beat (or at least easily survive in) the 0.25/0.50.

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