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Hands from today, lots of med pp play...

  
 
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Fnord
Old 01-30-2005, 09:33 AM     Post subject: Hands from today, lots of med pp play... #1 (permalink)  
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UTG is very loose (60/8) and I'm not sure how aggro.
CO is loose (30/3) and passive
BB is loose and (60/3) and I also don't have much of a read on aggro.


Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is MP1 with K, K.
UTG calls, 1 fold, Fnord raises, 2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) 4, J, 8 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Fnord raises, CO calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.16 BB) 3 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Fnord raises, CO calls, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, Fnord calls, CO calls.

River: (17.16 BB) 3 (3 players)
UTG bets, Fnord calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 19.16 BB


BB is loose (72/10) and maybe a little aggro

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is MP1 with A, K.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Fnord raises, 3 folds, Button 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Fnord caps, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (16.33 SB) A, 5, 2 (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Fnord raises, Button folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (11.16 BB) J (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Fnord raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (17.16 BB) 9 (3 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 folds, Fnord calls.

Final Pot: 19.16 BB

Isolation play on a loose limper

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is MP2 with 7, 7.
2 folds, MP1 calls, Fnord raises, 4 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.33 SB) A, A, K (2 players)
MP1 checks, Fnord bets, MP1 calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) J (2 players)
MP1 checks, Fnord checks.

River: (3.66 BB) 8 (2 players)
MP1 bets, Fnord folds.

Final Pot: 4.66 BB


Another sticky spot with a loose/passive player and a small pocket pair. Should I go back to limping these?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is MP2 with 6, 6.
3 folds, Fnord raises, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) A, 8, J (4 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets, CO calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 5 (3 players)
Fnord checks, CO checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 9 (3 players)
Fnord checks, CO bets, Fnord folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB

Third one for charm...

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is MP2 with 8, 8.
3 folds, MP1 calls, Fnord raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) K, T, 5 (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Fnord checks, CO checks.

Turn: (4.16 BB) 9 (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, Fnord folds, CO raises, BB folds, MP1 3-bets, CO caps, MP1 calls.

River: (12.16 BB) 5 (2 players)
MP1 checks, CO bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 14.16 BB
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 01-30-2005, 04:13 PM #2 (permalink)  
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hand 1:
i play it the same

hand 2:
betting into a raiser like that every street is kind of ackward playing....i think more often than not you missed a value raise here on the river.

hand 3:
hmmm....with no read it's hard to know what they have. it's a small pot and probably not worth the 1 big bet to find out what they have.

hand 4:
raising 66 MP is too aggressive for my tastes...half the deck are overcards!

hand 5:
same deal as hand 4

------

for 2 of the above hands you checked on the turn behind when they called your flop bet. if you have any fold equity from them i think you should follow up with the turn bet more often.
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-30-2005, 05:07 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 hand 1:
I like you're play. CO probably had the Ace of Hearts and UTG has a Jack, a set, or possibly the flush. Nice pot.

hand 2:

I think BB hit two pair somewhere all the way. I like your play. I usually only see stupid people that bet into you everyround at Absolute. Party players give away their hand a lot by doing this.

hand 3:
easy fold. With an underpair than whats on the board, any jackass holding anything can beat you here. Too small a pot to really piss a fit over.

hand 4:
Too aggressive for me too, unless you you can buy the button and you are playing against some weak-tight players. Another easy fold here, your PP is too small compared to all the overs and relative to the pot size.

hand 5:
I dont mind the raise here, you are hoping to get out the bull shit AXs out there so you can still make a good hand. I generally dont like how you raised preflop and then checked the flop, especially when it checked around. But, you were correct in you are behind in this hand so a check is reasonable, but a value bet could still be made, i mean, they are giving it to you. Its only obvious what these players have, CO has the straight and MP1 I'm thinking KT or K9.


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cnfuzzd
Old 01-31-2005, 02:01 AM #4 (permalink)  

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cnfuzzd
might i suggest breaking your hands up into seperate posts? That way, we arent compelled to respond to all of them at once, and the discussion can grom free of the cumbersom quotes from the other hands. Just a thought



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Fnord
Old 01-31-2005, 02:11 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaroIsking
might i suggest breaking your hands up into seperate posts? That way, we arent compelled to respond to all of them at once, and the discussion can grom free of the cumbersom quotes from the other hands. Just a thought
Meh, a block of 4 isn't that bad. Don't feel compelled to comment on all four by any means...
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cnfuzzd
Old 01-31-2005, 02:19 AM #6 (permalink)  

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cnfuzzd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaroIsking
might i suggest breaking your hands up into seperate posts? That way, we arent compelled to respond to all of them at once, and the discussion can grom free of the cumbersom quotes from the other hands. Just a thought
Meh, a block of 4 isn't that bad. Don't feel compelled to comment on all four by any means...

Wow, having read my post, im surprized that you were able to understand it at all. Apparently 8-tabling, browsing two forums, and aiming is too much for me

Anyway, ive always found that once the threads get too deep, it gets confusing, but if you are comfortable with it, i can deal. response coming soon.

peace

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Fnord
Old 01-31-2005, 03:03 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I was wondering who CaroIsKing was, since there are only so many players with a clue. Welcome to FTR!
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cnfuzzd
Old 01-31-2005, 03:04 AM     Post subject: Re: Hands from today, lots of med pp play... #8 (permalink)  

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cnfuzzd
In the 77 hand, i bet the turn and take a free showdown if offered. You need to not get bluffed off these types of hands when you decide to play them for a big bet preflop, and checking the turn is almost always an invitation for getting bet into.

As for the isolation raise play, im not much of a fan of it, at least in the most general sense. For this play to be profitable, you must a) have a high degree of success at actually isolating, b) have tight control over your opponent in that you are properly able to interpret his calls,bets, and raises, and finally c) be able to get to showdown somewhat painlessly on difficult boards. I find that these three align fairly rarely in most hold em games i play in.


peace

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elipsesjeff
Old 01-31-2005, 03:58 AM     Post subject: Re: Hands from today, lots of med pp play... #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cnfuzzd
In the 77 hand, i bet the turn and take a free showdown if offered. You need to not get bluffed off these types of hands when you decide to play them for a big bet preflop, and checking the turn is almost always an invitation for getting bet into.
How many people check raise the turn though with an Ace in this situation? I think if you bet the turn and get check raised, you are forced to fold minus a bet. You can check the turn and decide to make a crying call on the river and you get to see the showdown for the same price. Thats why folding here would be a good play, the only hand that MP1 has that doesnt have Fnord beat is Q9 here or lower. I'll take that chance with such a small pot that he has a better hand than 77. If he is just calling on any gutshot on the flop, he has fnord beat. Still a very easy fold.


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cnfuzzd
Old 01-31-2005, 05:47 AM     Post subject: Re: Hands from today, lots of med pp play... #10 (permalink)  

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cnfuzzd
Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnfuzzd
In the 77 hand, i bet the turn and take a free showdown if offered. You need to not get bluffed off these types of hands when you decide to play them for a big bet preflop, and checking the turn is almost always an invitation for getting bet into.
How many people check raise the turn though with an Ace in this situation? I think if you bet the turn and get check raised, you are forced to fold minus a bet. You can check the turn and decide to make a crying call on the river and you get to see the showdown for the same price. Thats why folding here would be a good play, the only hand that MP1 has that doesnt have Fnord beat is Q9 here or lower. I'll take that chance with such a small pot that he has a better hand than 77. If he is just calling on any gutshot on the flop, he has fnord beat. Still a very easy fold.
I think you have some fold equity in this bet. There are some players at this level who will check raise you with an ace, but they almost never fit the description of "loose limper." Also, i like checking through my mid pocket pairs on the 3/6 tables because it shows anyone who is watching that i am not always raising with big cards. While "advertising" plays at this level are of minimal value, this is one of those times when i both want to get to showdown, see my opponents hand, AND like showing down my probable second-best hand.

Yes, you do occasionally get checkraised, but so many of the weaker players are not willing to fold on the flop that i think this is still +EV, especially if you are percieved as a tight player. I think all in all, that this is a good bet to make, and since i am almost never making a mistake in folding to a check raise on an ace, i dont mind doing so.


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john nickle
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