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Fnord

12-01-2004, 10:04 AM Post subject: Hands to talk about...

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

SB is LAggy, but has been showing the goods. Previously I laid down second pair to a turn raise after c/ring the flop.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is BB with J

, K

.
UTG folds, MP folds, Button folds, SB raises, Fnord 3-bets, SB caps, Fnord calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T

, 5

, 8

(2 players)
SB bets, Fnord raises, SB 3-bets, Fnord calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 6

(2 players)
SB bets, Fnord calls.

River: (9 BB) 2

(2 players)
SB bets, Fnord calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Table is tight/passive with a couple soft spots. Neither in this hand.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is Button with A

, T

.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Fnord raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 7

, T

, 8

(2 players)
MP1 bets, Fnord raises, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 6

(2 players)
MP1 checks, Fnord bets, MP1 raises, Fnord folds.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is MP3 with 3

, 3

.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Fnord calls, CO raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Fnord calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) K

, 4

, K

(4 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Fnord checks, CO checks.

Turn: (4.75 BB) T

(4 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Fnord bets, CO folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds.

River: (6.75 BB) 9

(2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Fnord checks.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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mike4066

12-01-2004, 01:13 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Posts: 1,943

#1
Maybe I don't know enough about 6max. But calling down with King high...
I understand he's laggy, but do you think he remembers you folding after check raising?

I also understand that calling down this hand could change your table image.

#2
4 cards to a straight, theres nothing that can save you if he does have a 9. Against an uncreative opponent I'll lay this one down pretty often.

#3
Hey nobody else wants it take a shot..

I'm not crazy about betting into 4 people like this, but I'll give it a shot if the table is weak.

LeFou

12-01-2004, 01:25 PM Post subject: Re: Hands to talk about...

#3 (permalink)

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Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Hand 1:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Flop: (8 SB) T

, 5

, 8

..SB 3-bets[/color], Fnord calls.
Turn: ...6

...
River:2

SB bets, Fnord calls.

Are you hoping for J9s not of hearts? That seems like the only thing he could be playing this way that doesn't beat you... and probably there's a 1 in 10 chance that's it.

Keep in mind, you're the expert. I'm treating this post like a quiz. My thinking is that the flop bet could be overcards-only, but the flop 3-bet means one of them is an ace.

Hand 2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

MP1 checks, Fnord bets, MP1 raises, Fnord folds.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

I dig. CR after betting out the flop is bad news. I count 5 outs that improve you, but not vs. the str8. (This btw is one of those things I can't bring myself to do frequently enough)

3:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

UTG+1 checks, Fnord checks.
Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Weirdest thing in that one is CO folding after the PF raise and 2 broadways on deck. If I had to guess, I'd say you lost this to a bigger small pp.

Fnord

12-01-2004, 04:14 PM Post subject: Re: Hands to talk about...

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LeFou

Keep in mind, you're the expert. I'm treating this post like a quiz. My thinking is that the flop bet could be overcards-only, but the flop 3-bet means one of them is an ace.

It's a pretty bad call-down, although I called the river more to look him up than because I felt I would win often enough. Question is how I should have played it post-flop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

fishstick

12-01-2004, 04:33 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

hand 1 (disclaimer about no 6-max limit experience)

i don't like the flop raise. with the SB showing PF aggression, and you missing the flop, and the SB still firing, and you not having any redraws (other than 2 overs that may or may not be good), i would call the flop and fold the turn if no improvement.

too passive for 6-max?

hand 2

maybe crying calls on the turn/river? would this guy play KT, QT, JT the same way? likely a good turn fold.

hand 3

i like your play and the turn bet is appropriate, but doubt you won. i'm guessing UTG+1 paired the T, 9 or 4, but is afraid of the K's.

good holibobs?

i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...

Fnord

12-01-2004, 05:09 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

i don't like the flop raise. with the SB showing PF aggression, and you missing the flop, and the SB still firing, and you not having any redraws (other than 2 overs that may or may not be good), i would call the flop and fold the turn if no improvement.

too passive for 6-max?

Good question. I certainly have a call on the flop, but with position and heads-up in a blind war I'd really rather raise than call (Koolmoe???). The tough part is how much credibility to give the pre-flop cap. Anyway, with 3 hearts on the board and none in my hand I really needed to fold the turn. I guess I just smelled something...

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

maybe crying calls on the turn/river? would this guy play KT, QT, JT the same way? likely a good turn fold.

Yeah, although I think KT/QT/JT sometimes plays like this. Between the pot size, tight player, scary board and turn check/raise (suggesting malice and forethought) I found a laydown. I also considered checking the turn...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

|~|ypermegachi

12-01-2004, 05:12 PM

#7 (permalink)

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i think hand 1 was more about table image than maximizing EV. looks like you're behind preflop and on the flop. but you showed aggression preflop, showing the table you're not gonna get bullied in the big blind. raise the flop telling them i have a good hand and i'm not just protecting my blind. but after the SB reraising, you can't be sure if he's hopelessly bluffing more, or has a hand. pot is medium size, heads up, you might even win unimproved. call down...something like this fnord?

Fnord

12-01-2004, 05:13 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mike4066

I'm not crazy about betting into 4 people like this, but I'll give it a shot if the table is weak.

I bet into 3 players. I think I had a credible bluff of a missed flop c/r with a King in addition to the chance of having the best hand or getting one to fold (if any of them are thinking players.) Pot is pretty nice too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

steviebrutal

12-01-2004, 08:24 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 96

I agree somewhat with what has been said here thus far. I don't know if I like the raise on the flop; I can understand that you want to show that you won't be bullied - but remember, this is limit hold em. You were faced with alot of resistance PF by a player you said yourself who usually has the "goods." Any resistance on the flop should, IMO, be met by (at the most) a call. Even then I would have probably folded on the Turn (if not at the flop). It has been said already that it depends on your goal in this situation - I don't see it as terribly consequential as far as your table image is concerned mainly due to the underlying understanding among all players that youre not going to hit every flop... pretending like you do, can get you busted.

Fnord

12-01-2004, 08:27 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by steviebrutal

I don't know if I like the raise on the flop.

I've won lots of pots with a flop raise. Just need to know who is almost never folding. If he calls I come out ahead too, because I can check the turn unimproved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

steviebrutal

12-01-2004, 08:38 PM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by steviebrutal

I don't know if I like the raise on the flop.

I've won lots of pots with a flop raise. Just need to know who is almost never folding. If he calls I come out ahead too, because I can check the turn unimproved.

Maybe Im too jaded from playing low limits for so long. When a pot ends before the River I have a party.

Fnord

12-01-2004, 08:40 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by steviebrutal

Maybe Im too jaded from playing low limits for so long. When a pot ends before the River I have a party.

The mindset changes a bit for some players when the small bet is more money than you have change in your pocket

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

mike4066

12-01-2004, 09:39 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,943

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike4066

I'm not crazy about betting into 4 people like this, but I'll give it a shot if the table is weak.

HAHAHAA I'm an idiot.. I read through it too fast and forgot to exclude you from the count.

Betting into 3 is usally stop point for something like this.

Leave it to a Tech to not start counting at 0!

koolmoe

12-02-2004, 01:54 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Drowning in prosperity

Posts: 1,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

I like the flop raise. I think I'm calling the three bet and folding the turn unimproved, but when I do continue, I'm raising the turn when the third heart hits. Most times you'll get to the showdown for the same price, and you pick up a little folding equity. Depends on the opponent of course. YMMV.

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