Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

All Other (Limit) Poker

  > 

Hands from a losing session

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
DickieBets
Old 04-21-2006, 06:21 PM     Post subject: Hands from a losing session #1 (permalink)  

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 69
DickieBets
During the past couple of days I've played in 5 or 6 .10/.20 Limit sessions on Poker Stars, all of which I end up down - not alot - but 5 to 10 BBs -

I've read SSHE a couple of times - it sems to make sense when I read it, but I seem to have trouble applying it - and I'm far from crushing theses games !

I feel I should be doing better but when I look at my Hand histories I just don't see what I'm doing wrong. I see a few SB's I could of folded and a couple of stabs at the flop, but aside from that, I'm at a loss.

I included all hands I played from the first session I grabbed - All the sessions are similar.

I seem to be running poorly but I'm not convinced that is the problem, I wonder if I'm missing a key concept.

It'd be great if some of the better players could take a quick look at my hands and point out any things I'm doing wrong . I play the SSHE starting hands for loose tables.

From a random 67 Hand session, I played the following 16 hands :

HAND 1

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 3, Q. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Hero (poster) checks, 4 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) A, 3, K (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (1.75 BB) 2 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 2.75 BB

HAND 2

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, J.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 7, 5, K (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 6 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Button raises, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

River: (9 BB) 3 (2 players)
MP1 checks, Button bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

HAND 3

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, T.
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 3, 9, 9 (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 4 (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero folds, MP2 folds, CO folds.

River: (4.50 BB) 8 (2 players)
SB bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

HAND 4

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, T.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 4 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) J, 7, 8 (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

River: (3 BB) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4 BB

HAND 5

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 9, 9. CO posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 6 folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6, 6, Q (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, MP3 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

HAND 6

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3, 5.
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 8, J, A (6 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 2 (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, UTG calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 7 (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 folds, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

HAND 7

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q, Q.
1 fold, Hero raises, 3 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (9 SB) A, Q, 3 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) T (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

HAND 8 - It's not clear but I folded this one preflop :

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, T.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 9, A, 4 (6 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: (8 BB) Q (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Button calls.

River: (11 BB) 3 (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 13 BB

HAND 9

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J, 7.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 8, K, T (6 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG folds, MP2 raises, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 2 (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, SB calls, MP2 calls.

River: (12 BB) 4 (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

HAND 10

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3, J.
3 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 2, 6, 5 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) Q (3 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 2.50 BB

HAND 11

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, J.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 2, 8, K (4 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.75 BB) 3 (4 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, Button calls, UTG folds.

River: (11.75 BB) 3 (3 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB

HAND 12

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q, A.
1 fold, Hero raises, 4 folds, CO calls, Button 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 2, Q, 6 (4 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, Button raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, CO calls $0.10 (All-In), Button calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) K (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (9.25 BB) T (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

HAND 13

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, T.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 5 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) A, 9, J (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.75 BB

HAND 14

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, 8.
4 folds, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 4, K, Q (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) Q (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero folds.

River: (3.50 BB) 5 (2 players)
SB bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

HAND 15

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, 6.
6 folds, CO raises, 3 folds.

Final Pot: 1.75 BB

HAND 16

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 2, 2.
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 2, 8, 7 (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6 BB) T (5 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (16 BB) 6 (5 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, CO folds, Button raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20 BB
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
pokerfanatic
Old 04-21-2006, 06:53 PM #2 (permalink)  
pokerfanatic's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
pokerfanatic
Send a message via AIM to pokerfanatic
Hand1:
ok newb post shitty hand brick fold yea seems fine

Hand 2:
yea that;s fine too

Hand 3:
yup fine

Hand 4:
ummm donking the GSD.. meah looks fine

Hand 5:
so how can a guy c/r and a 3rd fold?
bb checks, mp3 checks Hero bets? meah 8:1 on your money fine

Hand 6:
I'm not sure what you plan on hitting here with a 35s 10.5:1 on your call though meah could argue either way (fold or call)... after that fine

Hand 7: bet the flop, plays diffrent from there... i fold to you if you pull a PFR check on the flop raise the turn, hell i don't even bet the turn it's so trasnparent you have a big hand... plus by betting the flop hopefully a Ace raises and you can charge draws max you can...

though i wouldn't be suprized if the guy shows you T3 or TA on that hand... the stop and go on his part IMO is dumb... maybe he has a naked T...

Hand 8:
i probably take a flop depending on the PFR... reads?
not sure why UTG+! donks into all those players A4 prob...

Hand 9:
EWWW... fold this junk PF... you only have 2 limpers in front that's not enough +EV to make up the diffrence don't be results orinted here... ohh and when you flop the flush 3 bet charge the Ace draw most you can... but if he calls a raise cold on the turn he is callign 2 cold on the flop so i guess w/e works not used to that loose of play... but i play 3/6...

Hand 10:
fine

Hand 11:
Dude WTF ARE YOU DOING! ram that shiot!!! seirously, you played this like SHIT!!! and no i'm not trying to sound like an ass it's the truth...

i can see 2bb missed at least in this pot...

Hand 12:
bet the turn don't be a puss...it looks like he has a Q but is out kicked...

Hand 13:
too many weak aces play for you to beat buttom pair here... i c/f at this level... well i actully only bet bottom pair like that into a supper passive that is prob going to fold...

Hand 14:
if you play a hand on the button raise, open limping sucks ass in LP... hand plays WAY diffrent if you raise...

Hand 16:
honestly, i guess since this is 0.10/0.20 you can c/r the turn all day and get action that wont work as well as you move up...

note only reasion i went though this many hands is because i'm board you might want to consider only posting 2 or 3 hands at a time...

or pay eupho, jeff or i to look over a chunk of hands (though i think that might be out of your price range playing 0.10/0.20)
“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
 
Reply With Quote
thenonsequitur
Old 04-21-2006, 09:52 PM     Post subject: Re: Hands from a losing session #3 (permalink)  
thenonsequitur's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
thenonsequitur
Instead of commenting on each individual hand, I'm going to make one broad comment that covers many of these hands:

Bet your good hands!

In general, the better your hand, the more value you miss by not betting.

There's a time and place for slowplaying, and it's an uncommon time and place. You miss out on so much value by playing the way you do.
Reply With Quote
Xanadu
Old 04-21-2006, 09:59 PM #4 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
Xanadu
Well, I wrote down my advice for all your hands, and was going to post it all, but just read pokerfanatics again, because he pretty much said exactly what I was going to. Only thing to add is one of your worst mistakes was not raising the flop on hand 16. You flop a set, opponent bets, 2 callers, one to act after you, why aren't you value raising?

2 basic pieces of advice ...

1. switch to the tight hand chart, and only add some hands from the loose when the table is really loose or you are in late position with lots of limpers. From the hands you posted, these tables aren't quite loose enough for the SSH loose chart.

2. Stop slow playing so much. You had a couple spots you did it correctly, but overall, until you gain more experience, I recommend not slow playing at all. If you want to check a strong hand, check it when you expect one of the players to your left to bet ... this way you trap the field for 2 bets.
Reply With Quote
DickieBets
Old 04-21-2006, 10:31 PM #5 (permalink)  

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 69
DickieBets
Thanks for your help.

In hand 11, I was worried that if I was aggressive on the flop everyone would fold, but in hind sight, I was severley punished for slow playing.

I had just recently reread the section in SSHE called "Going for Overcalls" (pg. 206) and was going overboard with it. Maybe I should just worry about winning hands before being too fancy.

Something that I'm still confused about, though, is that if alot of bets are in the pot, making a bet on the flop simply adds more chips to the middle making it correct for players to chase their gut shot draws etc, whereas waiting for the turn decreases their odds at the risk of giving a free card.

Thanks for your help.

Martin
Reply With Quote
Xanadu
Old 04-21-2006, 11:14 PM #6 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
Xanadu
Quote:
Originally Posted by DickieBets

Something that I'm still confused about, though, is that if alot of bets are in the pot, making a bet on the flop simply adds more chips to the middle making it correct for players to chase their gut shot draws etc, whereas waiting for the turn decreases their odds at the risk of giving a free card.



Martin
Keep rereading SSH and playing to put it in practice until you 'get it'. There are fine lines between value betting the flop with a big pot and waiting for the turn to better protect your hand. Sometimes the pot is so big that you probably will never get to protect your hand against anything but a backdoor draw. Sometimes the pot may be relatively big, and waiting for the turn will protect your hand better, but your hand is so strong that it is better to value bet the flop because many weak draws that hit will still be behind, or even if they do hit their draw, you still have equity on the field because they are drawing almost dead or you have a better redraw (i.e. when you have a set).

You seem to not really know how to play a flopped set. When you have a set, many of the draws you would normally be protecting your hand from with a weaker hand like TPTK are no longer dangerous to you. Anyone with a pair, with a 5 out draw to 2pair or trips is not a danger to you because 2pair will not beat your set, and if they make trips, you have a boat. They have to hit both the turn and the river to beat you with either a better boat or quads. Even against flush and straight draws, in a multi-way pot, you aren't so concerned about folding players and protecting your hand. This is because even though they may have 8 or 9 outs twice to beat you, you have 7 outs on the turn and then 10 on the river to improve to beat them even if they make their hand. Basically, if you flop a set, and there is no higher set out there, if there are 2 other players in the pot, you will win more than your share no matter what comes on the turn and the river ... you should be looking to value bet, not to thin the field.
Reply With Quote
aleksandr
Old 04-23-2006, 05:20 AM #7 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
aleksandr
Send a message via AIM to aleksandr
Great explanation Xan.

Here's the short and the long of protecting your hand. You must first assess the following:

1) The texture of the flop.
2) The strength of your hand. Include position.
3) The action so far, which you use to judge...
4) The likely strength and variety of opponents hands.
5) The size of the pot.

There are many hands that need protecting. The objective is to increase the equity of a made hand by giving opponents with some pot equity the choice of making a clearly unprofitable call, or folding.

The lowest hand that I would protect is Ace high. The best I would protect is a set of aces. Lets examine the reasons to protect a hand.

1) The texture of the flop can be:
a) dangerous due to apparent possible draws.
b) dangerous due to overcards to your pair.
c) dangerous because you have a strong draw, but many other hands are possible.

Situation A is obviously best to attempt to protect your hand by check-raising or waiting until the turn to bet. You give the worst odds to drawing hands this way, therefore, offering them a correct fold, which increases your % equity, or an incorrect call, which increases your dollar equity. You should only do this when a straightforward flop bet will not protect your hand.
Situation B you should not attempt to protect your hand, because if a hand is to beat you, it is likely already made and you are drawing to slim outs. You should, out of position, check and fold if you sense you're beaten, or bet for value if you feel your hand is best.
Situation C, your hand's equity goes up very little unless you can get everyone in the hand to fold. You should not protect your hand here, simply bet or raise in multiway pots to increase it.

2) I just covered 2, kinda. However, I'd like to not that the better your redraw, the less likely you should be to protect your hand. You should checkraise or turn bet if your redraw does not significantly reduce their equity below the amount of a flop bet. If they have a 35% flush draw, but you hold the Ace of their suit, your redraw decreases their equity by about 15% (of the 35%) or so, plus removing an out.

Anyway, time for bed. I'm a limit noob, so I'd love to hear the vets comment on the rest of them.
Operation Learn to Read
Reads: 7 posted
Money: $31
SNGs: 0
MTTs: 0
 
Reply With Quote
Xanadu
Old 04-23-2006, 04:49 PM #8 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
Xanadu
Aleksandr, you said that one should not protect their hand when the flop comes with overcards ... you should check/fold.

This is not really true. There are quite a few cases when you should protect a hand when top pair would have you beat. Here's one right out of SSH. The exact details may be off a little (it's from memory), but the idea is right. Here's the hand:

You have TT in the SB, there are 3 limpers, you raise, BB folds, all the limpers call. Flop comes something like Q72 rainbow. You check, and it is checked to the button who bets. The pot is now 10sb, and you aren't going to fold because the button could easily be betting without a Q. You should raise to protect your hand since you don't want to fold. You face the remaining 2 players with calling 2 cold with only a 12sb pot. This is a good play because if you can get any Aces or Kings to fold, you increase your pot equity a great deal. Someone may have a weak Q and have you beat, but they are likely to check this down after you show aggression on the flop. There is also the added advantage that if one of the flop checkers raises, and then bets out the turn, you are pretty safe to fold to a turn bet, saving you money over if you had to call down to the river.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:05 AM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.