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Fnord

01-11-2005, 03:54 PM Post subject: Hand reading practice

#1 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Hands from this morning's sesssion...

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

, A

.
UTG calls, Button raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, Button caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12.33 SB) K

, K

, 7

(3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, Button caps, Hero calls, UTG calls $1.50 (All-In).

Turn: (11.91 BB) 5

(3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (13.91 BB) 7

(3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.91 BB

BB is loose, I suspect he bets the flop with anything

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8

, A

.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) T

, A

, 9

(2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) J

(2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.16 BB) J

(2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.16 BB

UTG+1 is loose/passive

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A

, Q

. MP2 posts a blind of $3. CO posts a blind of $3.
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 (poster) calls, CO (poster) folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (8.33 SB) J

, 4

, K

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.16 BB) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.16 BB

Both opponents are loose/passive

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J

, 5

.
UTG calls, MP folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (3.33 SB) K

, 8

, J

(3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) 8

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks.

River: (4.66 BB) Q

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 7.66 BB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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Sed

01-11-2005, 04:21 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....

Posts: 1,102

1) AQ diamonds
2) 9T diamonds
3) KJ
4) Kx

- sed

No fear, go deep or go home!

Fnord

01-11-2005, 04:33 PM

#3 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by sed

1) AQ diamonds
2) 9T diamonds
3) KJ
4) Kx

You arguably got every one wrong. I don't see how you came to a couple of those conclusions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

fishstick

01-11-2005, 04:33 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2004

Location: Carlsbad, CA

Posts: 1,405

let's see how far off i am! (maybe this much - holding my hands far apart ):

hand 1 - i'm thinking AA, i can't imagine him betting the way he did with a 7, or even 77, without read info.

hand 2 - 9T or TJ

hand 3 - KT or something close, but not good enough for him to reraise PF

hand 4 - Kx and/or Jx with marginal kicker. i'm surprised you didn't fold to the raise on the flop - if UTG is passive but raising, he's likely hit the K at least. the pot's also pretty small.

i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...

Sed

01-11-2005, 04:36 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....

Posts: 1,102

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by sed

1) AQ diamonds
2) 9T diamonds
3) KJ
4) Kx

You arguably got every one wrong. I don't see how you came to a couple of those conclusions...

that's why I don't play limit online... i gotta quit playing with my friends, obviously their play is screwing up my reading ability.

- sed

No fear, go deep or go home!

Fnord

01-11-2005, 04:42 PM

#6 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishstick

hand 1 - i'm thinking AA, i can't imagine him betting the way he did with a 7, or even 77, without read info.

4-6 handed I see 77 play like this all the time. Then again, it was silly of me not to re-raise the river. I suspected a split pot and should bother to memorize the rake table for situations like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Sed

01-11-2005, 04:54 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....

Posts: 1,102

yeah I need to read the whole thing... I missed the number of players in each hand and your reads inbetween them.

- sed

No fear, go deep or go home!

Sed

01-11-2005, 05:03 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....

Posts: 1,102

1) KT/J
2) 78 or 89
3) Kx
4) Jx and Kx

did I get one of them right?

-sed

No fear, go deep or go home!

|~|ypermegachi

01-11-2005, 05:51 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

hand 1:
wow...this one is very tricky because it's 4 handed, and it could be a blind steal, or a bluff at the river. hard to tell, if he's very LAG he could play like this with 22. my guess is something with a 7 in it....ie suited connector, plain connector, suited king or ace with the 7. but yes i agree you're ahead way too often to miss value bets.

hand 2:
i raise the turn to see where i'm at. open ended + flush draw, you have a huge pot equity. this hand is almost impossible to read because you just called the turn and river. even LAGs won't 3 bet into a raise without top pair unless they are stupid or drunk, so i suspect he has an ace and you split the pot.

hand 3:
being loose passive expands all his starting hand possibilities. i think it's worth raising the turn to see where you're at. otherwise, i think AK is a strong possibility. he has a king to say the least.

hand 4:
betting vs folding the flop is close, i'd probably be more on the check/fold side for this hand. i think CO has a low pocket pair, with a bluff at the end. UTG being passive raised the flop suggesting he had a strong hand, but checking turn was ackward, which makes it look like he had a busted flush draw. so....CO = lower pockets, UTG = um...suited 9 or higher

Fnord

01-11-2005, 06:11 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by hypermegachi

betting vs folding the flop is close, i'd probably be more on the check/fold side for this hand. i think CO has a low pocket pair, with a bluff at the end. UTG being passive raised the flop suggesting he had a strong hand, but checking turn was ackward, which makes it look like he had a busted flush draw. so....CO = lower pockets, UTG = um...suited 9 or higher

Given oh so much aggression shown pre-flop, I'm betting this flop every time and I will call that raise with pretty much anything as a balance issue. The river was the only interesting street IMHO...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Jes_Gru

01-11-2005, 07:35 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 209

I will probably be way off on these, but:

Hand 1: Button has AA, QQ or JJ

Hand 2: BB has QTo

Hand 3: UTG+1 has Kx d

Hand 4: CO has AQo
UTG has KT

Ayce

01-11-2005, 09:06 PM

#12 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

I play NL but here's my read.

1. AK is the only thing that seems reasonable, I'd be thinking split pot here. The all in could be just about anything proably pockets of some sort.

2. For a good player i'd say set but given your read proably T9

3. Kx.

4. Last one is very difficult loose passive can be just about any two cards but surely CO has at least a Qx.

If you won that pot at this level i am going to study Sklansky HEFAP and switch into limit for a while, cos folks are simply throwing their money away.

Fnord

01-11-2005, 09:18 PM

#13 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayce

If you won that pot at this level i am going to study Sklansky HEFAP and switch into limit for a while, cos folks are simply throwing their money away.

I didn't win this pot, but you hit the nail right on the head as to why I mostly play Limit online. Offline I'm comming around to the fact that there are probably some amazingly soft cash NL games in Vegas/LA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Ayce

01-12-2005, 01:33 AM

#14 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

You said a mouthful Fnord i hopped into 3/6 during lunch and simply used my NLHE hand selection which is more than ultra tight for limit. About the 15th hand I am there this hand comes up.

Typing it, not sure it will convert, first time I have actually put in a hand here.

Pokerroom 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with ACKC
First six players fold, Villain-bets, Button folds, Hero raises, BB calls, LP calls.

Flop: (3 BB) TC, JS, QC (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, Villain calls.

Turn: (4.5 BB) 7D, Hero bets, BB folds, Villain raises, Hero 3-bets, Villain caps.

River: (12.5 BB) 4D, Hero bets, BB folds, Villain raises, Hero 3-bets, Villain caps.

Final pot: (20 BB) - rake removed.

I thought there was a law against theft!

Zangief

01-12-2005, 10:20 PM

#15 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posts: 370

Here are my thoughts:

1. This depends on how loose he is. Would he cap the betting with KQ suited? Will he take gambles with suited connectors?

He liked the KK7, 2 diamonds flop. So he could have a K, a 7, 2 diamonds of his own, or any pocket pair over 7s. If he had 2 diamonds, I expect he would have something like AQ (or AJ), since he capped the pre-flop betting (and he can't have AK diamonds). But you already said he didn't have AQ diamonds.

He just calls the bet when the 5d comes on the turn. This could either be slowing down because he didn't like it (suggesting he has a K, 7, or overpair) ... or because he likes it (suggesting 2 diamonds).

When the 7 comes on the river, he raises, suggesting he liked that card - probably because he was scared of the flush, but just made a boat. This is the key point for my analysis - this is where I take him off of the flush and the pocket pair above 7s.

So I say he has either AK, KQs, or KJs, if he is reasonable. I think you split.

2. Not really sure. Ax?

3. If he is loose-passive, I expect that he made a hand on the flop, since he bets. If he is really passive, he wouldn't continue to bet the turn without a hand that beats Aces - making me think he already has a set or 2 pair on the flop ... or made his 2 pair on the turn. And he has a strong enough hand that he doesn't mind the 3rd diamond hitting on the river.

Not sure - 44?

4. UTG = Ax clubs, CO = Qx

whileone

01-13-2005, 12:05 AM Post subject: Re: Hand reading practice

#16 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 306

ok, i play NL but i'll take a stab at them.
1. since it's only four player, the starting hand selections go down.
my guess is, a pocket pair, or a suited ace down to about 9. two unsuited face cards don't warrent capping, possibly KQ suited, maybe.

villan likes the flop. i'm gessing now he has 2 pair. possibly a flush draw, but doubtful. AQd? maybe A7? maybe AK suited?

turn: hmm, diamond is a scare card... definitly 2 pair , slim chance of a set of sevens or kings

betting again, so he's not scared of the flush anymore. must have become a boat.

final guess: AK

2. loose with a raise automagicly fits with the ace anything category, or any two face cards

flop, pairs the ace - lousy kicker, or possibly JT through 87

turn , jack looks good, covers the weak kicker, gives a set or a second pair or nothing.

river jack dosn't hurt...

70% pair of aces, kicker dosn't play
25% one or two pair of junk
5% set o jacks

3. loose passive, just called. face anything, or two suited rags

flop, catches something, flush is doubtful. i'm guessing 1 pair of anything at this point

turn, hero checks, so you didn't pair your ace. i'm sticking with 1 pair

hmm. diamond isn't a scare card, but you didn't bet. middle pair must be good!

K rag or J rag

4. loose passive, just called. face anything, or two suited rags

flop, passive so they won't bet unless they cought something.
UTG + 1has a Krag, maybe K8, CO is on the draw, QT? flush maybe? probably not that strong.

turn, no help. maybe a scare card. perhaps UTG has 77 or lower?

river, CO was on the draw for sure, must be 10 9.
UTG +1 has a low pocket pair, or K rag, or J rag. not sure why the second 8 took the wind out of his sails.

that's a fun game. i'll try to play more often

Zangief

01-13-2005, 06:34 PM

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Massachusetts, USA

Posts: 370

Solutions, Fnord? I'm impatient.

Toasty

01-13-2005, 09:59 PM

#18 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: England UK

Posts: 1,522

Hand one, he has AK too or KQs and was feeling fruity, anything worse than this add him to your list...

Hand 2 this one is tricky without seeing the player, I'd go for Ace little or T9...

Hand 3 if UTG+1 is a normal player i'd say AJs as that's the only hand I see him calling and not re-raiseing...

hand 4 CO QJ UTG Axs or Kjs or something, if he has worse then he's a noob :P

I havn't read any replies yet and I'd be interested to see how i got on.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

Fnord

01-14-2005, 02:18 PM

#19 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Hand 1: Button has A

, UTG has T

Hand 2: MP2 has A

Hand 3: UTG+1 has 6

Hand 4: CO has Q

, UTG has K

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

|~|ypermegachi

01-14-2005, 03:29 PM

#20 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Hand 1: Button has A

, UTG has T

Hand 2: MP2 has A

Hand 3: UTG+1 has 6

Hand 4: CO has Q

, UTG has K

hand 1: wrong
hand 2: half right...got the ace, didn't get the kicker
hand 3: way off
hand 4: a quarter right, got the suited but didn't think it would be that high

wow that's a whopping 0.75/4 for 18%....back to the study board

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