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sarbox68

10-20-2006, 07:37 PM Post subject: Hand feedback

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from

Posts: 871

Ok... first hand posting, and would appreciate any feedback at all...

Folded to in MP3, so raise PF. Only BB calls. Flop gives me only inside straight draw. Bet into by BB, raise to semi-bluff for Turn free-card and BB calls. Turn now gives me a J-high flush draw on top of inside straight draw. BB bets into me again, I call based on flush draw. River comes, miss the flush and straight draw, call BB because of pot size and also believed was on draws. BB shows Kh,Qs.

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with K

4 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls (3.5:1).

Flop: Q

(4.5SB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls (7.5:1).

Turn: 5

(4.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls (5.25:1).

River: 6

(6.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls (7.25:1).

Results:
Final pot: 8.25BB

Next...

Play pocket 7s and lose to pocket 8s.

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with 7

3 folds, MP2 calls (1.5:1), 3 folds, SB calls (2.5:0.5), Hero checks.

Flop: 5

(3SB, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls (4:1), SB folds.

Turn: 4

(2.5BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls (3.5:1).

River: 4

(4.5BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Results:
Final pot: 4.5BB

Final one... MP1 first in with KQo so raise. CO and BB call. Pick up a J on rainbow flop. I read outs as 4.5 (1.5 x 2 overcards + 1.5 for gutshot straight). BB checks to me, so I cBet, BB raises so I call. Pick up a 10 on the turn, giving open ended straight + 2 overs. BB bets in, I call. Miss the river, check all around and BB shows J8o and picks it up with pair of Jacks.

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP1 with K

2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, CO calls (3.5:2), 2 folds, BB calls (5.5:1).

Flop: J

(6.5SB, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO folds, BB raises, Hero calls (9.5:1).

Turn: T

(5.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls (6.25:1).

River: 7

(7.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Results:
Final pot: 7.25BB

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Ragnar4

10-21-2006, 09:18 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Billings, Montana

Posts: 1,284

Hand one:

Pretty loose pre flop raise. I don't like it. Several hands will smoothcall and have you dominated. Anyway Big Blind calls.

Then he bets into you. Stop. He's telling you he's ahead, not only that, you missed the flop hard. You have to assume you're behind here. Analyzing the situation, you see that you have a gutshot draw, (4 outs) and a backdoor flush draw (1 out since it's not to the nuts or 2nd nuts...) 5 outs total. You need to be getting 8.4-1 to justify a call here. You can'treally argue that implied odds get you there, because implied odds and pot odds only enter the equation when multiple players have entered the pot but we'll do a heads up . You go ahead and raise. Meaning that in order to make money on this play. you need to make 8.4BB if you hit your hand in the end to profit from it. Not 8.4 total bets, but 8.4 of your OPPONENTS bets. So 16.8 total bets need to go into that pot in order for you to make money. had you just called, you would have needed to get to 8.4 total big bets into the pot to justify it.

Okay, so you hit a heart, giving you a nasty heart draw. He bets again, and now you have 8 outs to the flush, and 3 outs to the straight (one of the outs dissappeared to the flush) so 11 outs. You're now 24.2% to win this hand. you need 3.1-1 to call here, cool, it's a good call after a questionable flop play. Theeeen your flush hits. Obviously in order to call down the flush, you HAD to have put your opponent on a smaller flush, or a hand that would have lost to the flush..... so raise the river!

Hand two.
Several schools of thought here. Several people like to suggest that with one over, if you can't pick up the hand with aggression on the flop, give it up.
On the flip side, you've led all the way down, why give a hand like 88 with 2 pairs on the board and an over card the opportunity to show down for free?
Pick your poison. As for the play. I've done the same.

Hand 3. KQ off suit is +ev. Except from under the gun +1 and +2. Mid position and on... then it picks up strength. KQs is worth a limp call mayyyyybe... but KQ off... no. just no.
You have two overs... you lead out after BB checks... and then he fires off a check raise. a CR can mean 2 things. Either. I want a free River card.... or I've got a huge hand buddy.

Look at that board and tell me why he'd want a free river? Nothing worth drawing at. Soooo.. he could have JJJ, 666, 222, or J6, or J2, or 62 He IS The BB. Hell he may have even gotten tricky with KK, AA, QQ.

So your KQ won't win if it catches a K or a Q with all of the hands he would CR with. You're drawing dead to a runner runner straight draw? worth 1.5 outs here... You need to be getting 33ish-1 to call that.. Even after the Check Raise you can't do that!

Then you catch the Ten. for an up and down straigth draw... And call... 8 outs needs 4.75-1 to call ... you have it.. and promptly miss the river. Only way to Win the pot is to bet at it... Assuming that Check/Raise was him being a donkey... And you check too... Free Showdown at least. I hope, for your sake, once this hand was over, he was some nasty donkey that showed down K9 off.

Wow that was harsh.. But the situations you landed yourself in were almost ALL -EV huge.

I can say one thing though, your choice to come here, and post these hands suggests you intend to get better. There are several players here who have a LOT of good things to say, and they can, and WILL help you. Willingness to learn is all it takes man. I remember making those types of plays too, and wondering why I was losing money. I remember the frustration in watching 88 beat my 77 on some nasty board because I mis-played the hand. After time here, and Reading SSH, Hepfap, Caros Book of Poker Tells, Zen and the Art of Poker, The theory of Poker, Ken Warrens Guide to winning poker... and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head, and most importantly coming here and reading what good players had to say. I learned a lot, and quickly. Right now I'm one of the most feared players at my local casino. I show down winners in HUGE pots, and I'm aggressive enough in a 3/6 game to win pots with nasty bluffs and people respect me. Even those crazy Any Two Cards Club Asians hate it when I'm at the table... and that's where you can be. =)

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

sarbox68

10-21-2006, 06:28 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from

Posts: 871

Thanks Ragnar. The raises on both the KQo and KJo were because I was first in and in MP. I keep reading in SSHE, HEPAP and WWLLHE (as well as here and elsewhere) "if first in, don't limp... " Am I taking this too literally?

Ragnar4

10-22-2006, 12:37 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Billings, Montana

Posts: 1,284

In SSH I honestly can't find a "if first in don't limp" passage. Seems to me those charts at the front of the book suggest (in ssh) anyway, that there are some hands to raise with, some hands to limp with, and some hands to call raises with, and some hands to re-raise with.

I was just challenging what you seem to think is an automatic raise. The raise is ONLY automatic if the game fits the profile of a crazy table where players are seeing too many hands too far down. Sometimes an early limp is profitable. I have a hard time folding KQ from MP, and it's worth seeing. But I have a very hard time raising KQ unless the table is scared of my table image.

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

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