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spoonitnow
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11-21-2006, 06:28 AM
Post subject: Guess UTG's Hand (UTG limp/3-bet pf)
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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5-handed, Hero is SB
Hero is dealt A 8
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.
Flop: A J A
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks.
Turn: A J A 3
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG raises, Hero calls, BB calls.
River: A J A 3 8
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Limp/3bet usually means AA/KK/QQ/AK. We know he cannot have AA so my best bet is KK then AK.
Couple of questions: Have you or the other players in LP been aggressive PF for a while? If so, it could leave villain to believe he could limp/3bet a big hand.
Also, after this flop you have to believe UTG flopped an absolute monster (AJ/JJ) or totally blanked (TT/QQ). I think those are the types of hands that do not bet this flop. AQ/AK I would believe would bet this flop. Either way a totally funky line by UTG.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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This was villian's second hand as he posted the blind out of position the hand before, and I've never played with this guy so I have no reads. On the flop I was thinking KK, AK, or QQ/JJ in that order. On the turn when he raised me it pretty much confirmed my fears, but with the pot size I feel like I have to stay in it. If the river is a non-miracle card, I still check/call one bet.
Villian had A5o. Go figure.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
This was villian's second hand as he posted the blind out of position the hand before...Villian had A5o. Go figure.
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Yea, sign of a fish, that definitely widens his range. I gave him too much credit for being a thinking player
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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The only reason I posted was because it was totally unexpected for him to have A5o there, thought someone might get a chuckle 
And who says lhe is dead? :P
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Im jumping between hating your river play and loving it.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I'm assuming I have the best hand on the river, which I think is reasonable at this point. For him to have exactly AJ is highly unlikely.
I think leading out on the river gets the most in the pot on average. I'm hinging this on the chance that the BB will call my bet and the chance that UTG will raise.
If I bet, worst case scenario is that BB folds and UTG calls (1 bet in). Best case is BB calls and UTG raises (3+ bets in).
If I check, BB will probably check. Worst case is UTG checks behind (o bets in). Best case is UTG bets, I call and BB overcalls (2 bets in). Or if I raise, BB will most likely fold, and UTG will probably only 3-bet when I'm beat (2 bets in unless I'm probably beat).
I figure if I'm behind here I'm losing ~3-4 more bets anyway I play it.
This make any sense or am I way off base? 
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Hmm, I was thinking 33. A weak Ace makes sense too. I actually see a lot more weak hands than strong hands from the limp/3-bet preflop line (depends on stakes). I see it happen far more often as a gambooling line than a trapping line.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xanadu
I actually see a lot more weak hands than strong hands from the limp/3-bet preflop line (depends on stakes).
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That's really interesting, I thought it was like almost always a big pair or sometimes AK.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Nope spoon youre right on with that analysis
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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I think it's all about table texture w/ the limp/3bet. If the table has been overly aggro PF then the limp/3bet would be a big pair. Passively it could be a smaller PP looking to isolate a late position raiser PF. I would always believe the limp/3bet to be a strong hand, not something like 33.
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