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Good Spot for a Semi-Bluff Here?

  
 
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silverfist
Old 01-03-2006, 06:30 PM     Post subject: Good Spot for a Semi-Bluff Here? #1 (permalink)  
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New to the table, so no real reads (I have some notes on two people, but they're not in the hand). Is this a standard spot for a semi-bluff, or should I be taking a free card here?

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Preflop: Silverfist is SB with 3, 8.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 4 folds, Silverfist completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) K, 9, A (3 players)
Silverfist checks, BB checks, MP1 checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) T (3 players)
Silverfist bets, BB folds, MP1 calls.

River: (3.50 BB) K (2 players)
Silverfist checks, MP1 bets, Silverfist folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB
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Hate
Old 01-03-2006, 06:49 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I bet the flop there
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ihategnomes
Old 01-03-2006, 07:47 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I donk the flop as well. Semi-bluffing the turn is good when you have some percentage of fold equity, along with X outs to hit your hand. King Yao's book has a really good section on this.
Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
 
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6high
Old 01-04-2006, 03:28 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Betting the flop is better. But this is fine.
Just fold.
 
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ihategnomes
Old 01-04-2006, 03:30 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I dont think its fine. Betting on the turn is surely -EV in this situation.
Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
 
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outphase
Old 01-04-2006, 04:01 AM #6 (permalink)  
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betting the flop is +EV because the pot is more than 2SB, if the turn is bloated, the bet could be +EV also, but only if you are getting like 4:1 on the turn... or is that only applicable to a call
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ihategnomes
Old 01-04-2006, 04:16 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Not to mention being out of position sucks, but on this hands its not so bad, since you have no showdown value unimproved and can safely check-fold the river.
Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
 
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6high
Old 01-04-2006, 04:36 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihategnomes
since you have no showdown value unimproved and can safely check-fold the river.
This actually helps in this case. The implied odds are good.
Because Hero is never calling a river bet if he doesn't make a flush and any villian calling this turn is likely calling a river bet when the flush hits anyway.
Just fold.
 
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euphoricism
Old 01-04-2006, 05:14 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Mike4066 summed it up best with, "Pots too fold for online read." Which, we think, means "Fold preflop."

Edit: Apparently thats not what that means. Oh well. From now on, any time I think someone should fold preflop, I'm saying, "Pots too fold for online read."

Edit 2: Oh yeah, bet the flop. And its not a "donk" bet because there was no raise on the previous round.
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pokerfanatic
Old 01-04-2006, 06:07 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Mike4066 summed it up best with, "Pots too fold for online read." Which, we think, means "Fold preflop."
3 handed against 2 random, I don’t think you have much equity here, no high card strength, no connectedness of the hand but it is s00ted... 2.5:0.5 on your money

I don’t know if I see a flop or not here, but if you do, I think betting the flop instead if the turn is the best line...
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ihategnomes
Old 01-04-2006, 06:19 AM #11 (permalink)  
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I fold preflop here too, but that was not the question that was asked.
Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 01-04-2006, 06:48 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihategnomes
I fold preflop here too, but that was not the question that was asked.
easy call getting 10 to 1; pretty thin getting 5 to 1.

I call 56s and 86s here, maybe more depending on my opponents.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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ihategnomes
Old 01-04-2006, 07:19 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Dont you normally call any 2 sutied with a 8 to 1 or better? Or do you think that is too loose?
Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 01-04-2006, 07:40 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihategnomes
Dont you normally call any 2 sutied with a 8 to 1 or better? Or do you think that is too loose?
Yes, I normally would. as well as 56o+ 79o+ J80+ most kings and any ace

That is pretty loose though.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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koolmoe
Old 01-04-2006, 05:10 PM #15 (permalink)  
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The point about completing any two suited from the SB is the huge implied odds. Expressed odds preflop aren't so important because you are getting double sized bets (relative to your investment) on the flop and quadruple sized bets on the turn and river. The investment of 0.25 BB can pay off huge, and the hand is easily dumped if you whiff.

One limper gives you nearly a value bet on the flop if you flop a flush draw.

This concept applies even more so in 2:3 blind structure.
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