Poker Forum

Over 1,232,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

All Other (Limit) Poker

  > 

Good check/raise situation?

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Romulus141
Old 01-01-2006, 02:54 AM     Post subject: Good check/raise situation? #1 (permalink)  
Romulus141's Avatar
Straight

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oxford, PA
Posts: 118
Romulus141
Send a message via AIM to Romulus141
Good spot for a check-raise? Worked well in this situation.

No read on MP3, as he just sat down.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 4. MP3 posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 (poster) raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 7, 8, Q (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (9 BB) Q (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 10 BB
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
6high
Old 01-01-2006, 10:16 PM #2 (permalink)  
6high's Avatar
Straight

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 136
6high
That's the worst checkraise in the history of poker.
Just fold.
 
Reply With Quote
Romulus141
Old 01-01-2006, 11:02 PM #3 (permalink)  
Romulus141's Avatar
Straight

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oxford, PA
Posts: 118
Romulus141
Send a message via AIM to Romulus141
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6high
That's the worst checkraise in the history of poker.
If you're going to post something like that, and you're not being sarcastic, then elaborate. Only reason I can think of for it not being a good option is because the pot is large. But even then, the flop is more or less uncoordinated, my hand is really vulnerable, so I'm facing the field with 7.5 to 1 pot odds. Unless you have a queen or an OESD (which I have no reason to believe at that point), you have no good reason to continue. Scared the pre-flop raiser as well, and he folded on the turn. I'm still working on recognizing good spots for check-raises, and I was checking to make sure this was called for.

If you were being sarcastic, then let me know and I'll disregard this. If not, then please explain.
Reply With Quote
pokerfanatic
Old 01-02-2006, 12:40 AM #4 (permalink)  
pokerfanatic's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
pokerfanatic
Send a message via AIM to pokerfanatic
This is easy... Fold pre-flop so what if you in a blind I don't think you have the pot equity to call... as a rule of thumb you need to usually have 2 of 3 things going for hands in these spots… 1: high cards 2: suited 3: connected, you have 1, you are suited with absolutely no high card strength, and you’re no where near connected, 3 or 4 gapers are not connoted…

As I side note I think c/r on that flop with your hand is a complete spew... I might see doing this with A8 but even then probably not, because I auto put myself on 5 outs and by c/r you isolate where you want donks over calling to get odds...
“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
 
Reply With Quote
elipsesjeff
Old 01-02-2006, 12:57 AM #5 (permalink)  
elipsesjeff's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point
 Well, preflop I think this is a fold. If it were 86s though my mind would be changed. On the flop I am preferring more a donk bet than anything, but your play worked for you. You've got 5 full outs probably and two backdoor draws, so I think folding this flop is criminal. I do like it better with A8, as its right out of SSH, but the way you played it wasn't too bad.


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
Reply With Quote
Romulus141
Old 01-02-2006, 01:12 AM #6 (permalink)  
Romulus141's Avatar
Straight

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oxford, PA
Posts: 118
Romulus141
Send a message via AIM to Romulus141
Alright, so fold preflop, and assuming I continued, I should have bet outright.

I guess I'm still confused as to when it is proper to use a check-raise. I keep reading the section on check-raises in both SSH and Theory of Poker, and I think I have it down, but this proves that I still don't. I know check-raises aren't used often, so if anyone has advice that will clarify what kind of situation prompts the use of a checkraise, I would appreciate it greatly.
Reply With Quote
elipsesjeff
Old 01-02-2006, 01:22 AM #7 (permalink)  
elipsesjeff's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point
 Just realize one thing when you are against check raises and your up against check raises that many people probably know but never actually think it:

When an opponent check/raises the flop, especially a good opponent, its not because he likes his hand. Opponents check/raise flop because they have generally have weak holdings that they want to make look stronger to get people to fold. Check/raising on the turn signifies strength over protection. If you checkraised me in this situation, I'm either putting you on a weak Qx hand or another pair. Its usually not a bluff so you'll only get action when they have a better hand. Sometimes AK will call down for fun too unimproved.


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
Reply With Quote
pokerfanatic
Old 01-02-2006, 01:33 AM #8 (permalink)  
pokerfanatic's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
pokerfanatic
Send a message via AIM to pokerfanatic
As the levels get higher you get 3 bet a lot more by more marginal hands here too... however at this level I think that you're behind when you get any action as Jeff said...

Jeff if you had AKs or AKo let’s say would you 3 bet and go for the free card unimproved assuming you are against a decent player...
“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
 
Reply With Quote
6high
Old 01-02-2006, 01:52 AM #9 (permalink)  
6high's Avatar
Straight

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 136
6high
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romulus141
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6high
That's the worst checkraise in the history of poker.
If you're going to post something like that, and you're not being sarcastic, then elaborate. Only reason I can think of for it not being a good option is because the pot is large. But even then, the flop is more or less uncoordinated, my hand is really vulnerable, so I'm facing the field with 7.5 to 1 pot odds. Unless you have a queen or an OESD (which I have no reason to believe at that point), you have no good reason to continue. Scared the pre-flop raiser as well, and he folded on the turn. I'm still working on recognizing good spots for check-raises, and I was checking to make sure this was called for.

If you were being sarcastic, then let me know and I'll disregard this. If not, then please explain.
1. You just check raised a pre flop raiser with 2nd pair, no kicker.
2. The flop is not uncoordinated.
3. Even if someone does have a hand, they are likely planning to checkraise anyway, their checks tell you nothing.
4. The pot is so big, that overcards, bottom pair and middle pair hands have enough odds (including implied) to call.
5. As soon as one of the above hands call, just about any hand can profitably call.
6. Your checkraise is likely to require a follow up bet on the turn, where you will still only be able to offer callers ~9:1 odds at worst.

You got very lucky.

Doing this with A8 is a much better play. It would be much more preferable that the pot be smaller and a little less coordinated.
When you play 84, you're not playing to make middle pair.

Just for the record: Betting this flop is terrible.
Just fold.
 
Reply With Quote
Mike_Ann
Old 01-26-2006, 08:41 PM #10 (permalink)  

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 61
Mike_Ann
Is that you suppose to fold your 4-8suited to start with b/c of the raise and you are tottally out of position here?
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 01-26-2006, 08:57 PM #11 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
if I was BB i'd play this preflop, SB I wouldn't. Youre calling a raise and a half with 84s. I check call flop hoping to see an 8 a 4 or a spade. From there it plays differently.

Betting this flop does you absolutely no good. Pot this big, no one folding for one bet. The fact that your C/R worked simply means you were bluffing with the best hand.

If you really had balls, you'd have c/r'd the turn ;]
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
Romulus141
Old 01-26-2006, 09:42 PM #12 (permalink)  
Romulus141's Avatar
Straight

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oxford, PA
Posts: 118
Romulus141
Send a message via AIM to Romulus141
I wonder why my post from a month ago was suddenly resurrected...

Yeah, I realize how stupid that SB call and the checkraise was now. Live and learn.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
eugmac Old 02-11-2012, 02:29 PM    WPT Lucky Hearts Poker Open Day 1A: Uri Kadosh Leads
The first day of the WPT Lucky Hearts Poker Open has ended at the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Hollywood, Florida. A total of 125 entrants were on the player's list at the start of the non-t ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:12 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.