|
euphoricism
|
07-03-2005, 01:30 AM
Post subject: Full ring seat and table selection
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
|
|
Everyone, (fnord..), is always talking about how seat and table selection is the most under-rated and overlooked aspect of the game. This has me worried, because well, I don't know much particularly much about it. I'm one of those dipshits that joins the waitinglist for any table with 8+ people.
The forum search function comes up with jack shiat, so here we are, in one easy-to-search-for-for-easy-reference thread:
What should a player look for in a full-ring table?
What seat should a player look for at a full ring table?
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
ttanaka
|
|
Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,184
|
|
These may help a little:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/Texas-H...-Position.html
http://www.flopturnriver.com/essays_...selection.html
|
|
|
|
euphoricism
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
|
|
Those are really geared toward no-limit though.
|
|
|
|
pokerfanatic
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
|
|
I think something like below would be ideal but at 1/2 or lower good luck finding it...
put taggs on your left idiots on your right, a guy that will cold call way to much on your left will make your life HELL... if you get a maniac on your left that even worse because he'll be 3beting all sorts of shit if he's a spunky PFRer...
|
|
“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
|
|
Nehmer
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic01
I think something like below would be ideal but at 1/2 or lower good luck finding it...
put taggs on your left idiots on your right, a guy that will cold call way to much on your left will make your life HELL... if you get a maniac on your left that even worse because he'll be 3beting all sorts of shit if he's a spunky PFRer...
|
Why would somebody cold calling way too much make my life HELL? My ideal opponent sitting on my left is somebody that is really loose preflop and will cold call almost every time I raise, but is really tight postflop and will fold to my continuation bets unimproved. It's not always easy to find people like that, but there are more of them around than you would think.
|
|
|
|
pokerfanatic
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nehmer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic01
I think something like below would be ideal but at 1/2 or lower good luck finding it...
put taggs on your left idiots on your right, a guy that will cold call way to much on your left will make your life HELL... if you get a maniac on your left that even worse because he'll be 3beting all sorts of shit if he's a spunky PFRer...
|
Why would somebody cold calling way too much make my life HELL? My ideal opponent sitting on my left is somebody that is really loose preflop and will cold call almost every time I raise, but is really tight postflop and will fold to my continuation bets unimproved. It's not always easy to find people like that, but there are more of them around than you would think. |
You have a fucking comment everything I say that shit is getting annoying, ask fnord his table selection and he will agree w/ me...
|
|
“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
|
|
Nehmer
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic01
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nehmer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic01
I think something like below would be ideal but at 1/2 or lower good luck finding it...
put taggs on your left idiots on your right, a guy that will cold call way to much on your left will make your life HELL... if you get a maniac on your left that even worse because he'll be 3beting all sorts of shit if he's a spunky PFRer...
|
Why would somebody cold calling way too much make my life HELL? My ideal opponent sitting on my left is somebody that is really loose preflop and will cold call almost every time I raise, but is really tight postflop and will fold to my continuation bets unimproved. It's not always easy to find people like that, but there are more of them around than you would think. |
You have a fucking comment everything I say that shit is getting annoying, ask fnord his table selection and he will agree w/ me... |
Ummm...I gotta say that came out of nowhere. Fnord might very well agree with you, which is why I asked why having somebody like that on your left is so bad. Also, if you are expecting me to quit asking questions or stating my opinion about situations, it ain't gonna happen. As far as I can tell the whole point of this place is to improve our poker skills by discussing these things with each other(that will often involve differing viewpoints).
|
|
|
|
Demiparadigm
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic01
You have a fucking comment everything I say that shit is getting annoying, ask fnord his table selection and he will agree w/ me...
|
This type of reply is not what I look for on FTR, and is better suited for other forums. This is completely unacceptable from a moderator. I have a lot of respect for you, and your commitment to the game and these boards. Nehmer asked a question, and deserves a better answer than "fuck you Fnord says so," regardless of the tone Nehmer may have used, or how you interpreted it.
|
|
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
|
|
Demiparadigm
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nehmer
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic01
I think something like below would be ideal but at 1/2 or lower good luck finding it...
put taggs on your left idiots on your right, a guy that will cold call way to much on your left will make your life HELL... if you get a maniac on your left that even worse because he'll be 3beting all sorts of shit if he's a spunky PFRer...
|
Why would somebody cold calling way too much make my life HELL? My ideal opponent sitting on my left is somebody that is really loose preflop and will cold call almost every time I raise, but is really tight postflop and will fold to my continuation bets unimproved. It's not always easy to find people like that, but there are more of them around than you would think. |
You want position on agressive players, and to agree with Nehmer, I think you want a player to your left who calls too often. While your fold equity drops, making it harder to steal blinds, the equity that you get from being called with mediocre hands makes up for it. You do NOT want a loose agressive player on your left, or any agressive player in general. You would like tight weak players on your left, since agression will win you a lot of pots uncontested.
The biggest rule to me, is Agressive on your right, and passive on your left. loose/tight matters far less.
You can either watch a table using Poker Tracker or check tables with PokerEdge. You are looking for tables with a number of bad players, and a high percentage of players seeing the flop.
I typically look at a few 10 max tables with 6 or 7 players. I then have a lot in the way of seat selection. Being able to play shorthanded is a big plus. If you have a 10 max table with 5 players, you effectively have a 6 max game that you can pick any seat you want 
|
|
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
|
|
euphoricism
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
|
|
A) ok, so the consensus is you want a calling station on your left, but not a laggy person who will re-raise you. You want the raisers on your right because you have position on them.
B) Not many comments as to table selection..
C) Get the dick waving out of my thread.
|
|
|
|
pokerfanatic
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
|
|
Maybe I was out of line and I apologize for that but it seriously to me seems like Nehmer is out to prove me wrong every post, sorry about that but it had to be said and I got tired of it...
|
|
“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
|
|
Xianti
|
|
Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
|
|
pokerfanatic01 was admittedly out of line and has apologized.
The flaming stops here. Please take any further arguments to PM.
|
|
|
|
Nehmer
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic01
Maybe I was out of line and I apologize for that but it seriously to me seems like Nehmer is out to prove me wrong every post, sorry about that but it had to be said and I got tired of it...
|
It's probably just because when I agree with something that was posted, there are usually already 4-5 other people that have replied saying they also agree with it, so no point in me posting my opinion. On the other hand when I disagree with something, lots of times nobody else has replied so I post  I think the disagreements are the best spots to learn anyway. I'm definately not out to get you or anybody else though, sorry if it seems like I am. (Edit: Sorry I was in the middle of writing this post when the above post was written or I woulda just PM'd this...)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by euphoricism
B) Not many comments as to table selection..
|
The only things I have found that have helped with my table selection is trying to find tables with lots of calling stations and one maniac(Tables with big average pots usually have something similar). I also try to avoid tables where it looks like there are a number of people that have been at the table a while going through a few seats with rotating fish(You can usually tell if 5+ people at a full ring table have around 2+ times the buyin in their stacks). Also, depending on what site/limit you play, you can probably also learn some of the regular sharks and just avoid tables with more than 2 of them unless it looks like everybody else is a complete moron. I know that there have to be better methods of finding tables though and I need to improve in this area.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nehmer
Why would somebody cold calling way too much make my life HELL? My ideal opponent sitting on my left is somebody that is really loose preflop and will cold call almost every time I raise, but is really tight postflop and will fold to my continuation bets unimproved. It's not always easy to find people like that, but there are more of them around than you would think.
|
More often than not he's going to call the flop + turn with just about anything. This isn't a horrible counter to TAggy aggression. The real pain is what to do on the river against these guys when you have something like AJo unimproved. Many (online) players like this will throw out a bluff about the right amount of the time when checked to.
You make the most money when you can act last. It lets you take free cards and avoids having rounds checked through with weak possible best hands. Acting second to last to a passive will hurt your bottom line at a mixed table texture if he's following you into every other pot. Sure it might be +EV in the long run, but you'll make so much more money with fewer tougher decisions if you simply seat yourself at a table where you have postion on guys like that.
In a mixed game I want player with position on me that will let me steal their button + blinds all day. When they do play, I want to be able to easily put them on a hand to minimize my position disadvantage.
|
|
|
|
Demiparadigm
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
|
|
Also, if you have a player on your right who calls too often pre flop, it may be very profitable t oraise with a wide range of hands to isolate and play heads up with position, a better average hand, and hopefully stronger postflop skills.
|
|
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
Also, if you have a player on your right who calls too often pre flop, it may be very profitable t oraise with a wide range of hands to isolate and play heads up with position, a better average hand, and hopefully stronger postflop skills.
|
Exactly. Also, consider that many of these players will limp a wider range than they will cold-call with. Hence, you have the best chance of trapping them pre-flop with a crappy hand against your premium hands.
Better hand and better position against a worse player is where the money is at. It's really fucking simple, but hard to really put together. I think there is a part of us that's competitive and wants to take 'em all on. Or maybe we focus too much on purdy colors and big numbers...
Once I put it all together and threw in PokerEdge my daily swings went down and my win rate went up. A day of horrible cards often went from a loss to break even.
I think the second biggest change in my game to come out of my pro experience is to not spew chips into passive players and big fields with good cards that missed. This includes knowing when to passivly play a draw. I stopped caring about "tabling my hand" because people generally suck and even the aware ones often draw the wrong conclusions.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
BTW, the whole concept of leaving a table because the live one has good position isn't a widely published and I hadn't been talking about it much. Probably part of it is that us online players can easily just pick another table.
It's probably +EV overall to stay at the table, but the bulk of the money isn't likely to trickle your way and being out of position will take away your ability to save bets on really close rivers (even by chump bet standards) in addition to missing bets and other such problems that come with being out of position. You're probably better off finding a different table. It's really hard, particularly after losing a couple tough hands to him. You just gotta do it, your bankroll will thank you.
Acting last is important. Really fucking important. The more you look at the game the more important it becomes. Acting second to last is no where near as cool as acting last.
Another thing I noticed is that I played 4 tables less and 3 good tables more, focusing more on the game and finding a good 4rth table with my spare brain power.
|
|
|
|
Zinnsoldaten
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 130
|
|
Example: Call-station to your right calls with something like 62s & you raise with KTs, forcing the Tight player(s) to your left fold his AJo or similar.
If you have loose players to your left, you won't be able to make this play as profitable, as they will call w/ Ax, KJ etc.
|
|
What Shadows We Are, And What Shadows We Pursue
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
