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Floppin a boat and missin bets

  
 
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euphoricism
Old 01-27-2006, 02:55 AM     Post subject: Floppin a boat and missin bets #1 (permalink)  
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Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is in the SB with 45
UTG raises, MP calls, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (9 SB) 5, 5, 4 (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Button calls, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) A (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Button checks.

River: (6.50 BB) 8 (4 players)
SB bets, UTG folds, MP calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB
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StinkyBeaver
Old 01-27-2006, 10:43 PM #2 (permalink)  
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this happens, but I do think you should bet out on turn and hopefully somebody just catch a decent ace.
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ArcticKnight
Old 01-28-2006, 05:29 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Hi Euphoricism

I like the way you played this. I mean you have an EP Raise and two cold calls, you'd think one of those three has somekind of ace. Cold callers in 6 max are famous for A10, A9, or any Ax cold calls.

If I was you I would expected a bet by someone else on the turn 95% of the time on this board, and even a raise by someone else before it's back to you. So my play would have been the same as yours.

I think you played it right to extract the max.

Just didn't work out.
Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-28-2006, 07:16 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 I disagree, I think he missed as many as 5 bets here.


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midas06
Old 01-28-2006, 09:02 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Elaborate?
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-28-2006, 06:41 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
Elaborate?
If you bet the flop instead of check, everyone is going to call. It sets you up for a bet/3 bet situation on the turn where if everyone calls you are getting 3 bets the first time and as many as 5 if someone raises you.


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Miffed22001
Old 01-29-2006, 05:41 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
Elaborate?
If you bet the flop instead of check, everyone is going to call. It sets you up for a bet/3 bet situation on the turn where if everyone calls you are getting 3 bets the first time and as many as 5 if someone raises you.
gotta say i agree
not badly played, but not played in teh best way :P
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ArcticKnight
Old 01-29-2006, 07:33 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
Elaborate?
If you bet the flop instead of check, everyone is going to call.
Well, ......if you have that crystal ball working and know everyone will call, then I agree.

What seems most likely on the flop is that the pre-flop aggressor will bet
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PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-29-2006, 07:37 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Yeah, but even if he raises you, expectation is only 1 SB less than had you bet and everyone calls. Also, it sets you up for a turn check raise and anyone stuck in between you get bets from.


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euphoricism
Old 01-29-2006, 08:33 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Arctic: Yeah, of course he has an ace, but he's scared shitless. With so many players in the pot, you have to think a 5 is out there. So of course he's checking behind and auto-calling the flop.

I know I missed bets, I dont think I missed 5 of them though. I figure I probably should have donked the turn.
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ArcticKnight
Old 01-29-2006, 09:42 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Arctic: Yeah, of course he has an ace, but he's scared shitless. With so many players in the pot, you have to think a 5 is out there. So of course he's checking behind and auto-calling the flop.

I know I missed bets, I dont think I missed 5 of them though. I figure I probably should have donked the turn.
There seem be two different coversations in the thread. Jeff is advcoating leading out with a bet on the "flop," but I wouldn't play it that way. I prefer your approach.

As for the turn, we know you missed bets because we see that nobody bet after your turn check. I think the advise to bet is working backwards from the outcome, and that given the same board and circumstances that you would get more money into the pot by checking the turn with the intent to raise.

I still think you played it to extract the max on the turn.
Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-29-2006, 10:54 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticKnight
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Arctic: Yeah, of course he has an ace, but he's scared shitless. With so many players in the pot, you have to think a 5 is out there. So of course he's checking behind and auto-calling the flop.

I know I missed bets, I dont think I missed 5 of them though. I figure I probably should have donked the turn.
There seem be two different coversations in the thread. Jeff is advcoating leading out with a bet on the "flop," but I wouldn't play it that way. I prefer your approach.

As for the turn, we know you missed bets because we see that nobody bet after your turn check. I think the advise to bet is working backwards from the outcome, and that given the same board and circumstances that you would get more money into the pot by checking the turn with the intent to raise.

I still think you played it to extract the max on the turn.
You can abstract more from bet-3/betting than check/raising.


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koolmoe
Old 01-29-2006, 11:48 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
You can [extract] more from bet-3/betting than check/raising.
Most definitely. I'd add that if you don't bet, you will almost never get in a three bet.

If you lead the flop and turn, most of your opponents will think you're full of it and find a reason to call. The aggressive ones will raise medium pairs. And if you are really lucky, another 5 will be out there drawing pretty slim but feeling good about the hand.

OTOH, if you wake up on the turn, you are pretty much giving away your hand.

I like betting and raising every street.
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ArcticKnight
Old 01-30-2006, 12:30 AM #14 (permalink)  
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ElsipsesJeff......."You can abstract more from bet-3/betting than check/raising."

Of course you can get more with a 3bet than a CR. But your orginal post advocated a SB lead bet because everyone would "call." Re-read your post. With flat calls the SB can't 3-bet, so it's a moot point

Under the "all will call basis", he needs to check to get a raise, so he HAS to let someone else bet.

last post for me on this one...
Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-30-2006, 01:19 AM #15 (permalink)  
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 If you pay close attention, I don't contradict myself.

If you bet and get raised, you go for the turn check raise.

If you bet and get called, you neither gain nor lose any bets had someone else bet. You gain when you can bet/3bet.

BUT, if you check, you can only lose bets forcing you to rely on other people doing your work for you. Even if you get your check raise on the turn 3 out of 4 times, if it gets checked through that 1 out of 4 times then you lose money.

It's always best to have a plan. 99.9% of the time I know what I'm doing before my opponent decides what he is going to do, regardless of what the cards are.


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