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Flopped top two pair vs possible flush

  
 
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Shark Bait
Old 04-21-2005, 09:45 AM     Post subject: Flopped top two pair vs possible flush #1 (permalink)  
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What the hell do I do here...I know I probably lost this because of my weak play. But other people were playing it strong like they had the flush or at least a draw. This actually happens to me a lot. I get a decent hand, but the board is all the same suit. Looking at this again, I probably should have bet the flop for information. A raise and he's probably got it...a call and I'm probably good.

Ultimate Bet 0.01/0.02 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, K. SB posts a blind of $0.01.
UTG calls, UTG+1 raises, 4 folds, SB (poster) calls, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 6, J, K (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, SB folds, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 5 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (14 BB) 7 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Jd Kc (two pair, kings and jacks).
UTG has 7h 7s (three of a kind, sevens).
UTG+1 has Js Ah (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: UTG wins 14 BB.
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Demiparadigm
Old 04-21-2005, 10:27 AM #2 (permalink)  
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You probably would have won with a checkraise on the flop and a lead on the turn, forcing the 77 to fold. But i normally lead this flop. It is less likely that a preflop raiser made a flush than a limper. While most limping hands are suited, most raising hands are not.
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honsheung
Old 04-21-2005, 10:36 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
You probably would have won with a checkraise on the flop and a lead on the turn, forcing the 77 to fold. But i normally lead this flop. It is less likely that a preflop raiser made a flush than a limper. While most limping hands are suited, most raising hands are not.
right , pay attention to limper or raiser is important,
limper is more likely to have suited cards,
anyway,

a check- rasie or a bet in flop is correct , I think.
But check-call is definately wrong .
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Tripps7
Old 04-21-2005, 03:31 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Almost always play 2 pair as fast as you can. You'll probably find out on the turn if you are up against a flush.

I think you're right, weak play probably cost you this pot.
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aleksandr
Old 04-21-2005, 06:30 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Fold preflop?

Dunno how KJo holds up against an all-out raising war.

On the flop, a bet for info would be solid.
Operation Learn to Read
Reads: 7 posted
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SNGs: 0
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 04-21-2005, 06:36 PM #6 (permalink)  
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this is the easiest fold preflop second time around...
 
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lonnie
Old 04-21-2005, 07:49 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Fold preflop...KJ is murder in a raised pot.

You have to show more aggression on the flop, and bet out on the turn. If you get popped on the turn, just call. Then go for a cheap showdown at the river.

Two pair on a mono-suited board is scary, but you need to play the flop as if YOU are the one with the flush. You are likely to have the best hand on the flop, and even if someone does have the flush - you still have 4 outs to be unbeatable.

These kind of flops are very scary, but a lot of times you will get action from the A or Q , who flopped the 4 flush and stay waiting for that 4th heart to hit the board.

It goes without saying, one more heart falls, you totally shut down.
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Shark Bait
Old 04-21-2005, 09:00 PM #8 (permalink)  
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OK preflop...I'm the BB, so should I have called the raise, and then folded to the cap?

UTG had only called at first, then he 3 bets. But also look at what they had. UTG was willing to call a capped preflop with pocket 7's. UTG+1 caps preflop with AJo, which I agree dominates me, but it's not that great.

I'm willing to admit that I played every part of this hand wrong, but assume I played the preflop correctly and I get the top 2 pair I wanted but it's all one suit, and I didn't hit one peice of it.

Going through it again (not including flop) I think I should have bet every round and folded to any raise or a heart on the turn or river...Is this a good idea?
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lonnie
Old 04-22-2005, 03:24 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
UTG had only called at first, then he 3 bets.
The limp/reraise usually means BIG pocket pairs. I wouldn't lose too much sleep trying to analyze a penny player's preflop strategy. At higher limits you will be looking at a Group 1 hand just about every time on the l/r.
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Shark Bait
Old 04-22-2005, 04:32 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonnie
Quote:
UTG had only called at first, then he 3 bets.
The limp/reraise usually means BIG pocket pairs. I wouldn't lose too much sleep trying to analyze a penny player's preflop strategy. At higher limits you will be looking at a Group 1 hand just about every time on the l/r.
I'm starting to do better here, so hopefully I will put more money in and move up a level. Problem is that it's quite a jump at UB with limit. there's 1/2 cent or 25/50 cent.
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Fnord
Old 04-22-2005, 05:05 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Fold pre-flop the second time around.
Flop call is ok.
You MUST raise that turn and lead the river.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonnie
The limp/reraise usually means BIG pocket pairs. I wouldn't lose too much sleep trying to analyze a penny player's preflop strategy. At higher limits you will be looking at a Group 1 hand just about every time on the l/r.
Wow, that's funny.

Without a read it's often some pocket pair or suited cards that wanted to take a flop multi-way and decided to try to push you off your hand. Also, sometimes it's some guy with a lot of gamble who wants to play a big pot (happens more often in some of the live games I play in.)

Quite often I'm calling down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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ChezJ
Old 04-22-2005, 05:07 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 shark bait, you cold called three times in a row with your dog hand KJo ("jack-king off")... all i can say is you got what you deserve. cold calling raises is definitely NOT in the tight-aggressive playbook. betting, raising, and folding are your primary moves if you want to become a winning poker player.
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Fnord
Old 04-22-2005, 05:09 AM #13 (permalink)  
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He was in the big blind. Probably should consider a fold the first time, but it's really close and situational. Not nearly as big of a mistakes as the 2nd pre-flop call and the turn + river which were all BIG leaks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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ChezJ
Old 04-22-2005, 05:14 AM #14 (permalink)  
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 ah thanks for pointing that out. my bad.
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