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Fish seem to call raises with some pretty imaginative hands.

  
 
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Bad Beaten
Old 08-14-2005, 01:17 PM     Post subject: Fish seem to call raises with some pretty imaginative hands. #1 (permalink)  
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Posts: 197
Bad Beaten
A three-card middle run with a dangler is crap in a raised pot.

And I obviously flopped top set or a nut flush draw...

And yet he still fucking calls me off the flop, knowing that half of his outs were tainted and that if he hit, I had big river redraws.

PokerStars Game #2335623223: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2005/08/14 - 09:10:49 (ET)
Table 'Nuwa' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: jj_frap ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Limppi ($11.65 in chips)
Seat 3: Tintiralla ($15.85 in chips)
Seat 4: The Plunger ($10.65 in chips)
Seat 5: MIKESTR ($7.95 in chips)
Seat 6: ditch3 ($10.10 in chips)
Seat 7: BraveGirl ($16.90 in chips)
Seat 8: kiwiboyslick ($13.30 in chips)
Seat 9: ibens ($17.25 in chips)
MIKESTR: posts small blind $0.10
ditch3: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jj_frap [Tc Qs Qh Kh]
BraveGirl: calls $0.25
kiwiboyslick: calls $0.25
ibens: calls $0.25
jj_frap: raises $1.35 to $1.60
Limppi: folds
Tintiralla: folds
The Plunger: folds
MIKESTR: folds
ditch3: calls $1.35
BraveGirl: calls $1.35
kiwiboyslick: folds
ibens: calls $1.35
*** FLOP *** [7h Qd 4d]
ditch3: checks
BraveGirl: checks
ibens: checks
jj_frap: bets $6.45
ditch3: calls $6.45
BraveGirl: folds
ibens: folds
*** TURN *** [7h Qd 4d] [5c]
ditch3: bets $0.25
jj_frap: raises $16.45 to $16.70 and is all-in
ditch3: calls $1.80 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [7h Qd 4d 5c] [9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ditch3: shows [7s 2d 8d 6d] (a straight, Five to Nine)
jj_frap: shows [Tc Qs Qh Kh] (three of a kind, Queens)
ditch3 collected $22.65 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $23.75 | Rake $1.10
Board [7h Qd 4d 5c 9c]
Seat 1: jj_frap showed [Tc Qs Qh Kh] and lost with three of a kind, Queens
Seat 2: Limppi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Tintiralla folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: The Plunger (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: MIKESTR (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: ditch3 (big blind) showed [7s 2d 8d 6d] and won ($22.65) with a straight, Five to Nine
Seat 7: BraveGirl folded on the Flop
Seat 8: kiwiboyslick folded before Flop
Seat 9: ibens folded on the Flop
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JimmyBluffit
Old 08-15-2005, 07:16 PM #2 (permalink)  

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JimmyBluffit
I ran the numbers on cardplayer and you had pretty nice edges preflop and on the flop, where most of the betting was done. So you you should feel good of how you played it (I know that's usually only a small consolation).
62% PF edge.
66% Flop edge.

Quote:
And I obviously flopped top set or a nut flush draw... And yet he still fucking calls me off the flop, knowing that half of his outs were tainted and that if he hit, I had big river redraws.
Middle Pair, low flush, and gutshot str8 draw is a weak hand to be calling that big a bet with, considering you could easily have a better flush draw or top set. But your hand may not have been as transparent as you think, though. All he had to go on was 2 pot bets. I think any rational player would have laid his hand down, but if he put you on aces which could fit your betting pattern, then his call would be correct, because if you had Aces with no other draw he would be a 2-1 favorite.

Who knows what he was thinking (or not), but that's my two cents!
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ihategnomes
Old 08-15-2005, 07:50 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Can we move this to the bad beaten, err, beat forum?
Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
 
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Staple Gun
Old 09-07-2005, 10:08 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Dont bite the hand that feeds you.
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dalecooper
Old 09-07-2005, 11:03 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyBluffit
I think any rational player would have laid his hand down, but if he put you on aces which could fit your betting pattern, then his call would be correct, because if you had Aces with no other draw he would be a 2-1 favorite.

Who knows what he was thinking (or not), but that's my two cents!
Bear in mind that even if he knew EXACTLY what the bettor had, he's still getting about the right pot odds. The pot is laying him 2:1 because this is, after all, pot limit, and his hand is 33% likely to win. If he hits on the turn any extra money he gets off of you is gravy (i.e. implied value for his flop call); if he misses he still has an easy all in call for what little money he has left.

This is an imaginative hand to play and a borderline call, probably made by a fish, but it's actually still very close to correct. If he had any compelling reason to think his flush draw was dead (of course - it often is in Omaha, with just middle cards) he should have definitely laid it down.
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